Modern ICE vehicles are designed to burn oil

[mangocrazy]

The entertaining and knowledgeable chap at D4A (driving 4 answers) has a very interesting vid about how manufacturers have been steadily reducing piston ring tension since the 1990s in order to meet emissions and efficiency standards. In a perfectly possible scenario, modern car engines can burn as much oil as one of those smelly, nasty stinkwheels. Shocking!

https://youtu.be/Ft12aZffCEg?si=Bvaq-rgTNWUkh3y7

Not sure how this affects bikes, but I imagine that something similar has been going on in two-wheeled developments.

[MrLongbeard]

An ICE using up to 1 litre of oil every 1000 miles has been the standard manufacturer cop out since for ever.

[mangocrazy]

An ICE using up to 1 litre of oil every 1000 miles has been the standard manufacturer cop out since for ever.

Once upon a time that was put in writing. Not any more.

[MrLongbeard]

An ICE using up to 1 litre of oil every 1000 miles has been the standard manufacturer cop out since for ever.

Once upon a time that was put in writing. Not any more.

Well you say that, I've just been checking whilst the vid was playing in background.

2012 Civic manual, not in writing
2016 Civic manual, in writing
2022 CR-V manual, in writing
2024 Civic manual, in writing

Either way my 2012 civic uses zero oil between 15k changes, which is why it was bought to replace an 08 Civic which also used zero oil between 15k changes.

I'm more miffed that they allow manufactures to do away with dip sticks, yeah it's a great idea that you have to start an engine, get it up to temp before you can find out if you have enough oil in it

[mangocrazy]

Agree completely about dipsticks - I'd never buy a car without one.

If your car uses no oil, then that's great. Our 2012 Skoda is equally frugal. But normalising 1 litre oil consumption in 1000 miles on vehicles with 15k service intervals is just asking for trouble.

[MrLongbeard]

but normalising 1 litre oil consumption in 1000 miles on vehicles with 15k service intervals is just asking for trouble.

Ignoring the issue that it's certainly piss poor by the manufacturer, why is it asking for trouble, Aren't folk taught to check their oil regularly?

[Rockburner]

Someone is going to have to explain to me how burning oil helps meet emissions standards....

[Skub]

Someone is going to have to explain to me how burning oil helps meet emissions standards....

Me too pleeze.

[roadster]

This is largely about how running in is achieved or is not. If a car is driven only at 50 mph from day one it will never bed in the rings and will probably use oil for the rest of its days. Manufacturers protect themselves from claims by saying a litre per 1000 km is "normal". BMW UK would run in demo/press cars by thrashing them up to Scotland and back as fast as possible and this achieved the best performance figures ( in the days when that was OK!). Its seldom an issue for bikes and the title of this forum explains why. Most bikers use the gearbox and the rev counter as intended for maximum enjoyment. The car I have now gives me no direct control over engine rpm whatsoever and I can only hope that journeys at motorway speed are enough.

[Jody]

but normalising 1 litre oil consumption in 1000 miles on vehicles with 15k service intervals is just asking for trouble.

Ignoring the issue that it's certainly piss poor by the manufacturer, why is it asking for trouble, Aren't folk taught to check their oil regularly?

No, like their not taught to check tyre pressures, or even top up the water bottle. More and more people regard a car as a tool. You get in it, drive when you need to go and get out. When the light comes on, it needs fuel. Everything else is either ignored or taken care of by a garage.

[mangocrazy]

^^^
This.

We are the (approximate guess) 5-10% of motorists who actually open the bonnet, peer inside and do various checks. Most folks just throw the vehicle at a garage and assume they will do everything needed/make it work.

[MrLongbeard]

but normalising 1 litre oil consumption in 1000 miles on vehicles with 15k service intervals is just asking for trouble.

Ignoring the issue that it's certainly piss poor by the manufacturer, why is it asking for trouble, Aren't folk taught to check their oil regularly?

No, like their not taught to check tyre pressures, or even top up the water bottle. More and more people regard a car as a tool. You get in it, drive when you need to go and get out. When the light comes on, it needs fuel. Everything else is either ignored or taken care of by a garage.

In that case, tough shit, they can either blame their parents for not teaching them or themselves for not RTFM that comes with their car / bike, I have zero sympathy for the lazy feckless tossers

[Jody]

Ignoring the issue that it's certainly piss poor by the manufacturer, why is it asking for trouble, Aren't folk taught to check their oil regularly?

No, like their not taught to check tyre pressures, or even top up the water bottle. More and more people regard a car as a tool. You get in it, drive when you need to go and get out. When the light comes on, it needs fuel. Everything else is either ignored or taken care of by a garage.

In that case, tough shit, they can either blame their parents for not teaching them or themselves for not RTFM that comes with their car / bike, I have zero sympathy for the lazy feckless tossers

It's not lazy imo, it's a lack of understanding. The car works, they are not interested in cars, so they just carry on.
Do you know how to service your washing machine and how often to change the filters and belts..... or are you a lazy feckless tosser ??

[MrLongbeard]

No, like their not taught to check tyre pressures, or even top up the water bottle. More and more people regard a car as a tool. You get in it, drive when you need to go and get out. When the light comes on, it needs fuel. Everything else is either ignored or taken care of by a garage.

In that case, tough shit, they can either blame their parents for not teaching them or themselves for not RTFM that comes with their car / bike, I have zero sympathy for the lazy feckless tossers

It's not lazy imo, it's a lack of understanding. The car works, they are not interested in cars, so they just carry on.
Do you know how to service your washing machine and how often to change the filters and belts..... or are you a lazy feckless tosser ??

It's lazy of their parents not to have taught them, it's lazy of them not to learn even if the teaching isn't offered on a silver platter.

Washing machine, yep no problem, full strip down, replace belts and brushes easy, vacuum cleaner same, extractor hood same, combi boiler same (although the powers that be would frown at that one)

[Horse]

BMW UK would run in demo/press cars by thrashing them up to Scotland and back as fast as possible and this achieved the best performance figures

Known, in the industry, as "Doing a Yorick"

@Yorick

[cheb]

If they were designed to then surely they would? I can't remember the last time I topped up the oil in a vehicle I own. None have used enough to need it between services.

Sounds like misinformation to me.

[MrLongbeard]

I'm wondering if we're not seeing the difference between ownership of a vehicle where you have your own money on the line and therefore ensure the vehicle is maintained and the PCP market where it's not your problem let the garage / dealer worry about it?

[Rockburner]

I'm wondering if we're not seeing the difference between ownership of a vehicle where you have your own money on the line and therefore ensure the vehicle is maintained and the PCP market where it's not your problem let the garage / dealer worry about it?

I'd say that's definitely a factor, but not the whole story.

[Yorick]

BMW UK would run in demo/press cars by thrashing them up to Scotland and back as fast as possible and this achieved the best performance figures

Known, in the industry, as "Doing a Yorick"

@Yorick

My bikes had harder lives than 99% of bikes and performed well despite never being run in.

[v8-powered]

One of the kids has a Shitroen C3 with the 3-cylinder Puretech engine, I reckon that easily does a litre of oil in 1000miles, if not more!