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Re: Portuguese MotoGP
Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2023 1:27 pm
by hawkati
For what it's worth, does marquez regret what he did, a reckless offline move that wasn't ever going to work? Yes.
Will he do it again? Yes. He always does.
Re: Portuguese MotoGP
Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2023 3:52 pm
by mangocrazy
Miguel Oliveira will be racing at Argentina, so that's good news. This is what he said about his condition:
“I don’t know if I will be 100 percent [in Argentina] but I will try my best. I have a big bruise on the hip on the right side, so I will treat that,” Oliveira said. “For the moment there are no fractures but there might be some ligament damage so we need to check it with an MRI.”
And as regards his conversation with Marc:
“We met in the medical centre. At the time I hadn’t watched the images. He said that probably he had a problem on his brakes. I mean, there’s nothing I could really say.
“Of course, there is respect and obviously his apology is accepted. But, at the same time, when we have a problem with the brakes on these bikes, usually we brake a bit earlier and we don’t try to overtake. So this is the main thing. For sure, he knows this better than me.”
Carefully-chosen words, I think...
It also appears that because the wording of Marc's double long lap penalty he will escape it, as he will not be racing at Argentina and the penalty specifically references the penalty to be served at the Argentina GP.
Re: Portuguese MotoGP
Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2023 3:55 pm
by Skub
mangocrazy wrote: Mon Mar 27, 2023 3:52 pm
He said that probably he had a problem on his brakes. I mean, there’s nothing I could really say.
But, at the same time, when we have a problem with the brakes on these bikes, usually we brake a bit earlier and we don’t try to overtake. So this is the main thing. For sure, he knows this better than me.”
Brilliant.
Re: Portuguese MotoGP
Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2023 4:00 pm
by mangocrazy
A dignified but incisive response, I think...
Re: Portuguese MotoGP
Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2023 1:06 pm
by mangocrazy
It now appears that MM will serve his double long lap penalty whenever he returns after injury, probably at Austin COTA on April 14 assuming he is sufficiently recovered.
https://www.crash.net/motogp/news/10230 ... rification
Re: Portuguese MotoGP
Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2023 3:53 pm
by Skub
Marc Marquez: “First of all I want to say that I am very sorry to Oliveira, his team and the Portuguese fans because it was his race. I did a really big mistake today, of course it was not my intention to have this happen, my intention was not even to overtake Martin at that point, but I had a massive lock with the front. I straight away went over to Miguel and then in the medical center I went to check on him – fortunately it looks like he is OK and this is the most important thing. I fully accept and respect the penalty of the double long-lap during the Argentina GP because I did a mistake.”
Re: Portuguese MotoGP
Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2023 4:15 pm
by Rockburner
Skub wrote: Sun Mar 26, 2023 5:28 pm
That was a horrible crash for Joel Kelso,just over the finish line in Moto3. Hope he's ok.
Yeah - what happened there?? I saw the incident on the ITV4 highlights show*, but it wasn't mentioned at all.
* jeez, what a sorry excuse for a pair of commentators.
Skub wrote: Sun Mar 26, 2023 5:28 pm
Marquez tripped over his own dick trying to make the Honda do the impossible,which was a pity for Olivera and Martin.
Bagnaia just looks like he has more in hand than everyone else,while Yamaha's misery starts again. Morbidelli was loosing something like a second every lap of the race.
I'd agree about MM, he was trying way too hard (even though that's his style, somewhat).
Re: Portuguese MotoGP
Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2023 4:19 pm
by Skub
Rockburner wrote: Tue Mar 28, 2023 4:15 pm
Skub wrote: Sun Mar 26, 2023 5:28 pm
That was a horrible crash for Joel Kelso,just over the finish line in Moto3. Hope he's ok.
Yeah - what happened there?? I saw the incident on the ITV4 highlights show*, but it wasn't mentioned at all.
Holgado had just crossed the finish line and had slowed for his celebration,Kelso was still tucked in and trying to remove a tear off,so he didn't see Holgado in time,clobbered the back of him and went airborne.
Re: Portuguese MotoGP
Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2023 5:13 pm
by Rockburner
Skub wrote: Tue Mar 28, 2023 4:19 pm
Rockburner wrote: Tue Mar 28, 2023 4:15 pm
Skub wrote: Sun Mar 26, 2023 5:28 pm
That was a horrible crash for Joel Kelso,just over the finish line in Moto3. Hope he's ok.
Yeah - what happened there?? I saw the incident on the ITV4 highlights show*, but it wasn't mentioned at all.
Holgado had just crossed the finish line and had slowed for his celebration,Kelso was still tucked in and trying to remove a tear off,so he didn't see Holgado in time,clobbered the back of him and went airborne.
Ouch.
Re: Portuguese MotoGP
Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2023 9:22 pm
by mangocrazy
Just watched the 'After the flag' segment on Youtube, and was interested to hear Simon Crafar's view of the MM incident, and also his views on Pecco, Mav, Bez and the Ducatis, Aprilias and KTMs:
https://youtu.be/LQn0HktUnCk?t=222
Re: Portuguese MotoGP
Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2023 8:36 am
by Flux
Until Honda can give it's riders a bike capable of winning, they (MM) need to accept 5th is probably as good as it's gonna get . Marc is an incredible talent but unfortunately the days of the rider making all the difference are gone, to be competitive at this level everything's got to be bang on.
Great to see his fighting spirt is still there, the outcome not so great...
Re: Portuguese MotoGP
Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2023 2:21 pm
by Yorick
Re: Portuguese MotoGP
Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2023 6:52 pm
by mangocrazy
Honda would have been well advised to suffer the penalty in silence, in my view. There is quite a feeling in the paddock that a DLLP is light punishment for the offence, and to placate those voices Honda (IMHO) should just have kept schtum about the revised terms. According to the letter of the law they probably have a case, but according to the spirit of the law they are acting in a manner that is completely tone-deaf.
Instead of firing up the outrage bus and calling for the lawyers they really should be focussing all their efforts on making the RC213V a bike whereby MM doesn't have to over-ride it to the degree he is in order to get somewhere near the front of the race.
Re: Portuguese MotoGP
Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2023 6:56 pm
by wull
What was the crime? His words are he had an issue with the front, whether it locked momentarily or not or whether he just missed his braking marker but from the footage it’s clear to me and hopefully anyone watching it that he didn’t actually attempt an overtake, it wasn’t a “move” as such so imho it’s just a racing incident. So is a double long lap penalty a light punishment for missing your braking marker? Or having a front end issue? If he had dived up the inside then of course it would have been light, but he didn’t do that and it’s clear to see he didn’t do that.
If he had tried to make a move by going up the inside or similar and it ended the same way then yes it should be punished in a more severe way.
Honda are simply exploiting what the actual rules are and trying to make the most of it.
Re: Portuguese MotoGP
Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2023 7:00 pm
by Yorick
mangocrazy wrote: Wed Mar 29, 2023 6:52 pm
Honda would have been well advised to suffer the penalty in silence, in my view. There is quite a feeling in the paddock that a DLLP is light punishment for the offence, and to placate those voices Honda (IMHO) should just have kept schtum about the revised terms. According to the letter of the law they probably have a case, but according to the spirit of the law they are acting in a manner that is completely tone-deaf.
Instead of firing up the outrage bus and calling for the lawyers they really should be focussing all their efforts on making the RC213V a bike whereby MM doesn't have to over-ride it to the degree he is in order to get somewhere near the front of the race.
Maybe. But Honda invest mega millions in MotoGP.
Millions to gain 1 tenth.
DLLP could deny them the championship.
No friends in racing
Re: Portuguese MotoGP
Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2023 7:14 pm
by mangocrazy
Yeah, I understand that, which is why they've gone ahead with the protest. But my point is that it's a really bad look. Perception is key, and Honda are not winning in the court of public opinion. It also actually sends a message to MM; we've got your back, no matter what.
Re: Portuguese MotoGP
Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2023 7:15 pm
by wull
mangocrazy wrote: Wed Mar 29, 2023 7:14 pm
Yeah, I understand that, which is why they've gone ahead with the protest. But my point is that it's a really bad look. Perception is key, and Honda are not winning in the court of public opinion. It also actually sends a message to MM; we've got your back, no matter what.
Yeah that’s true, and I don’t think it’ll bode well with the general public when they’re already up in arms about it.
Re: Portuguese MotoGP
Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2023 7:21 pm
by mangocrazy
wull wrote: Wed Mar 29, 2023 6:56 pm
What was the crime? His words are he had an issue with the front, whether it locked momentarily or not or whether he just missed his braking marker but from the footage it’s clear to me and hopefully anyone watching it that he didn’t actually attempt an overtake, it wasn’t a “move” as such so imho it’s just a racing incident. So is a double long lap penalty a light punishment for missing your braking marker? Or having a front end issue? If he had dived up the inside then of course it would have been light, but he didn’t do that and it’s clear to see he didn’t do that.
If he had tried to make a move by going up the inside or similar and it ended the same way then yes it should be punished in a more severe way.
Honda are simply exploiting what the actual rules are and trying to make the most of it.
How the incident unfolded is immaterial at this point. Honda and MM were given a (badly-worded) penalty, and then the terms of that penalty were changed. That's the issue, not the mechanics of the incident. Honda are trying to argue that the penalty was invalidated by the change in terms. I'm merely saying that the penalty should be served at the next race he participates in.
Re: Portuguese MotoGP
Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2023 7:29 pm
by wull
Oh I know the issue here is the wording of it, I read it. That’s why I said that Honda are exploiting the rules and appealing it which is fair enough. I was just replying to the statement about the “lightness” of the punishment because of the offence.
Like you said it’ll look bad on them especially when everyone is so riled up about the whole incident.
I agree it should be the next race he competes at because if not the next race he competes then what’s the point of the punishment.
Re: Portuguese MotoGP
Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2023 7:33 pm
by mangocrazy
wull wrote: Wed Mar 29, 2023 7:29 pm
I agree it should be the next race he competes at because if not then what’s the point of it.
Exactly. That's the point I was trying (badly) to make.
There's also the twist that it was a Spanish rider taking out the Portuguese hero at his home race. Spaniards and Portuguese have uneasy relations at the best of times, and that really wasn't the best of times.
