revtothelimit - motorbike forum

Mr. Dazzle wrote: Sat Dec 19, 2020 3:46 pm To a very great extent that is true, certainly when you consider the average length of car ownership. All the more reason to press ahead with self driving (electric, naturally ) cars and get people away from ownership IMO.

I know it’s a different subject but gettting people away from car ownership and into ‘on-demand’ self driving cars will be an unrealistic task anytime soon. Setting aside the previous discussions we’ve had about the technical viability of self driving cars, the psychological barriers to getting people out of their cars will be huge.

After all, the model of on demand cars already exists, they’re called cabs and car rental companies. I’m not sure what you see in people’s psyche that makes you think they’ll give up the personal fiefdom that is their car anytime soon.

I think it will be simple economics if its anything at all. When it becomes substantially cheaper to hire a car than own one that's when the shift will occur.

For most people are car is just transport and a status symbol. If the former is easier/cheaper with automation that's one element. Theres no reason an on demand car can't be status symbol too, they don't all need to be the same.

Its a long way off being the norm for sure, but even the new petrol car ban is 10 years away.

Mr. Dazzle wrote: Sat Dec 19, 2020 8:53 pm I think it will be simple economics if its anything at all. When it becomes substantially cheaper to hire a car than own one that's when the shift will occur.

For most people are car is just transport and a status symbol. If the former is easier/cheaper with automation that's one element. Theres no reason an on demand car can't be status symbol too, they don't all need to be the same.

Its a long way off being the norm for sure, but even the new petrol car ban is 10 years away.

It’s also somewhere people carry a a lot of stuff, pushchair meds drink paperwork spare pair of boots etc etc etc

I don’t see that ever changing

demographic wrote: Sat Dec 19, 2020 7:29 pm

Asian Boss wrote: Sat Dec 19, 2020 6:11 pm

Mr. Dazzle wrote: Sat Dec 19, 2020 6:04 pm I feel like this could all be solved with more textured insect protein and soya milk.

Meat and air travel are biggies too. They won't be ignored. The polluters will eat textured insect protein.

You're probably ok too, as you're also part of the solution. Under the hushy hushy Whitehall 'while the polluters pay, the fixers flourish' scheme you should also be entitled to a V8 car, unlimited fillet steak and two first class trips to the far east with full insurance on all boys damaged.

I'll come back to this but beef is a huge water sink. The amout of water used to produce one kilo of beef is astronomical.
Personally I like the taste and where my family farmed it the water fell from the sky (lake district) so it wasnt an issue. It was proper grass fed beef but in a lot of places its an environmental disasaster.

Beef is pretty disastrous. I think the polluting proles will be steered firmly away from it pretty soon.

Asian Boss wrote: Sat Dec 19, 2020 9:37 pm
Beef is pretty disastrous. I think the polluting proles will be steered firmly away from it pretty soon.

I see what you did there...

moth wrote: Sat Dec 19, 2020 4:34 pm That's happening here in 2023. The grid can cope, it's not transmission that's the problem it's distribution.

One decent EMP & it's all over...

ZRX61 wrote: Sat Dec 19, 2020 10:14 pm

moth wrote: Sat Dec 19, 2020 4:34 pm That's happening here in 2023. The grid can cope, it's not transmission that's the problem it's distribution.

One decent EMP & it's all over...

That's true. The internets would collapse.

Solid State batteries charged by Nuclear Fusion.

It's the future!

Mr. Dazzle wrote: Sun Dec 20, 2020 9:14 am Solid State batteries charged by Nuclear Fusion.

It's the future!

Earth based net positive fusion is as much a pipe dream as FTL and time travel. To make it work sustainably, you need a reactor about the size of a small star. It's not just the mass and resulting gravity which gives you a free lunch, it's because that enormous mass also allows fantastically rare fusion events to occur in sufficient quantities to be useful.

It always surprises me that there is so much evidence available on the Internet saying fusion can't be done, but so little saying it can. You'd think all these scientists doing stuff would check Google first to ask an expert what they think It'd save them so much time and effort.

Mr. Dazzle wrote: Sun Dec 20, 2020 9:52 am It always surprises me that there is so much evidence available on the Internet saying fusion can't be done, but so little saying it can. You'd think all these scientists doing stuff would check Google first to ask an expert what they think It'd save them so much time and effort.

I am not an expert and I haven't troubled Google over this either, it's common sense really.

There is a slim possibility that a microscopically energy positive reaction can be manufactured down here and the gigantic energies involved might even make that beneficial. Using say 100 gazillion Mw to produce 100.1 gazillion MW but I suspect the efficiencies will also be astronomical, let alone the complexities and cost of maintenance.

The science behind how stars even work at all is amazing but the science says the actual fusion event is incredibly rare even at those temperatures and pressures. For example, after a fusion event has occurred, it can take billions of years (!) for an energised photon to merely escape from inside the Sun.

Obviously I hope I am wrong but the signs are not good.

Mr. Dazzle wrote: Sun Dec 20, 2020 9:14 am Solid State batteries charged by Nuclear Fusion.

It's the future!

I reckon it's 20 years away...it always has been!

DEADPOOL wrote: Sun Dec 20, 2020 10:54 am
I am not an expert and I haven't troubled Google over this either, it's common sense really.

There is a slim possibility that a microscopically energy positive reaction can be manufactured down here and the gigantic energies involved might even make that beneficial. Using say 100 gazillion Mw to produce 100.1 gazillion MW but I suspect the efficiencies will also be astronomical, let alone the complexities and cost of maintenance.

The science behind how stars even work at all is amazing but the science says the actual fusion event is incredibly rare even at those temperatures and pressures.

"They" can already sustain a reaction where you get 65% of the energy you put in back out again. I.e Q = 0.65. The reactor they're currently building in southern France is designed to achieve sustained Q of 5 to 10.

Thermonuclear weapons get a Q significantly higher than 1.

Now obviously a nuclear bomb isn't a practical way to power a city (it would alleviate you of the need to power it though....) and they haven't actually finished building this reactor in France yet. However saying "its just common sense" is a bit wide of the mark

I don't think anyone even makes large electric estate cars or any that can tow, so it isn't just range and charging that makes it a non-starter.
I also don't have the right driving pattern to make it economically or environmentally friendly it would be a pretty stupid idea for me to do it no matter how woke it makes me look.
I'd love an electric car if it were practical but there seem to be a few issues the protagonists are ignoring when they say it's the future. I've been hearing we are on the brink of a massive battery breakthrough for the last 20 years so forgive me for not expecting it before 2030.
If I was looking for a second car then it would be different, that could easily be replaced by electric or self driving hire cars.

I actually saw a Model 3 with a tow bar yesterday....it surprised me, but I dunno why.

Dare I suggest it was just to hold the bike rack for a trip to the forest.

It's good to see that at least one manufacturer has rated it's EV for towing, I suspect most are scared of the bad press they would get if someone tried talking a caravan on holiday. With a suitable range EVs would take over the caravan towing market pretty quickly, powerful motors and a power supply for camping. But it's back to that battery issue.

My rents are caravaners and have kyboshed getting an electric car because of the "range issue". The irony to me is, they can't drive more than 15 minutes without a 45 minute tea and wee break anyway They stop for a half hour break on the <2 hr drive up here.

I suppose it'd be a bit of a hassle unhitching your 'van in a service station before driving around to the charging points.

Mr. Dazzle wrote: Sun Dec 20, 2020 11:02 am "They" can already sustain a reaction where you get 65% of the energy you put in back out again. I.e Q = 0.65.

You mean ITER? Yet another TOKAMAK? I'm glad they're doing it, there will be a ton of spinoff but the biggest lesson they will learn from it is why it won't work.

Genuine question: what is the current record for sustained fusion? Are "they" up to a millisecond yet?

Anyhow, I'm glad I don't live inside the blast radius.

AFAIK they're into whole minutes of sustained reaction now. The NIF in California (which also played the part if the USS Enterprise's engineering section) has also demonstrated net gain fusion IIRC.

This stuff should really be more prominent in the news!