revtothelimit - motorbike forum

Potter wrote: Tue Nov 09, 2021 1:36 am What other investments do people think are worthwhile?

Like if you had £50k parked in premium bonds but you were thinking of a change, where would you put it?
(not in a Panigale and Russian brass)

Depends on lots of things. Is the 50k part of a portfolio, how long can you leave it untouched, do you need short notice access, what risk level is acceptable? I'm sure you know all this stuff but PBs return 1% tax free on average at 0 risk. Savings accounts seem to be .35-0.5%

A bundle of funds - mainly trackers to keep charges down - Dow/FTSE/Europe/Emerging markets/Tech type of thing? Depends where you think things are heading over your planned timescale.
Something like a Blackstone bond fund? Boring but steady.
A bundle of income shares- re-investing income - or an income fund - although a few of the key UK income shares have drifted down in value so an income/growth fund might be a better bet.

If you want to go off piste there are some art works that you could enjoy for a while that look like safe bets (but purchase and sales charges can be eye-watering). Markets tend to be a bit 'fashionable' though.

TBH 50k in PBs looks quite attractive given all the short/medium term uncertainty and other interest rates.

If you can do with not touching it there are quite a lot of fixed period/rate savings accounts offering way better than the 1% average PBs give you.

Mr. Dazzle wrote: Tue Nov 09, 2021 7:45 am If you can do with not touching it

You're in a different demographic to many here

Mr. Dazzle wrote: Tue Nov 09, 2021 7:45 am If you can do with not touching it there are quite a lot of fixed period/rate savings accounts offering way better than the 1% average PBs give you.

Yes. I should have added that it's 0.35 - 0.5% for ready access accounts.

My missus, who is an IFA, was rambling on to me last night about putting some of my cash in some sort of a 5yr bond that also comes with a rather large tax refund/offset - I need to look in to it further with her as I was more interested in watching MasterChef last night than listening to her......

Potter wrote: Tue Nov 09, 2021 8:49 am

Mr. Dazzle wrote: Tue Nov 09, 2021 7:45 am If you can do with not touching it there are quite a lot of fixed period/rate savings accounts offering way better than the 1% average PBs give you.

Which ones?
And is it enough to make it worthwhile, even a 1% increase isn't worth the hassle on 50k.

This is where I need to point you at Google I'm obviously not going to say too much about my own set up on an open forum.

v8 makes a good point, there's two kinds of options here to. You can have a defined period savings account, generally your money is locked away but you can still get at it if you need - you just might not get the interest rate if you access it 'ahead of time'. With a fixed rate bond your money is genuinely inaccessible for several years, but you get single digit % rates at the moment.

I've got 'rainy day' money if the former kind, I don't plan on spending it any time soon but I need to be sure I can get at it if needed. It's not even keeping pace with inflation, but in my high street savings it'd really really not be keeping pace with inflation. If I withdraw from it I'll lose the interest, but my high street bank only pays 0.01% at the moment anyway so who cares?

FWIW nearly all of my 'proper investments' are in equities, almost exclusively in managed funds. I'm in about a dozen overall, spread across SIPPs and ISA. I've also got direct investments in a couple of firms, e.g. the aforementioned Tesla among them. I'm also "only" 37 so being more in equities is less of a risk at my age. Well, it's the same level of risk but i've got longer to get it back

Potter wrote: Tue Nov 09, 2021 1:48 pm

Mr. Dazzle wrote: Tue Nov 09, 2021 1:23 pm I'm also "only" 37 so being more in equities is less of a risk at my age. Well, it's the same level of risk but i've got longer to get it back

Don't take that for granted matey, five minutes ago I was also 37 - but somehow I aged 11yrs in five minutes.

I'm now extremely lucky in that I could put money away for five years no problem, but even then it doesn't pay enough that I can be arsed to do it, I don't want to put figures in because the thread will go wrong, but even if you drop six figures into one of these accounts it'll still struggle to match inflation.

In fact, the best way to beat inflation is to keep working and earning every month.
Or buy the right kind of physical assets and hope the arse end doesn't fall out.

and Bitcoin

Potter wrote: Tue Nov 09, 2021 1:48 pm In fact, the best way to beat inflation is to keep working and earning every month.

I am fortunate in that there's nothing much I want to spend my money on, so I'll save it until there is

Well that's not quite true, that bloody Bonneville is a bigger money pit than Julian's YPVS and baby Dazzle's school costs more than a Porsche. But I've never really had magpie tendencies (or I've grown out of them!).

So for now, I'll just save

v8-powered wrote: Tue Nov 09, 2021 11:10 am My missus, who is an IFA, was rambling on to me last night about putting some of my cash in some sort of a 5yr bond that also comes with a rather large tax refund/offset - I need to look in to it further with her as I was more interested in watching MasterChef last night than listening to her......

Perhaps a CITRA scheme like this
https://www.charitybank.org/ethical-sav ... -account-1

I had one a few years back and it was VERY good indeed. Since then the rules have changed, and the rates have dropped like a stone. Their is also a waiting list. The only real problem with it was that HMRC didn't have a clue, and I was forever having to educate them.

Just done some quick sums, and the current version seems to be offering about 4.3% equivalent BUT it only works if you pay enough tax AND you are locked in for 5 years, so you will need to pay enough tax every year.

Cousin Jack wrote: Tue Nov 09, 2021 2:07 pm

v8-powered wrote: Tue Nov 09, 2021 11:10 am My missus, who is an IFA, was rambling on to me last night about putting some of my cash in some sort of a 5yr bond that also comes with a rather large tax refund/offset - I need to look in to it further with her as I was more interested in watching MasterChef last night than listening to her......

Perhaps a CITRA scheme like this
https://www.charitybank.org/ethical-sav ... -account-1

I had one a few years back and it was VERY good indeed. Since then the rules have changed, and the rates have dropped like a stone. Their is also a waiting list. The only real problem with it was that HMRC didn't have a clue, and I was forever having to educate them.

Just done some quick sums, and the current version seems to be offering about 4.3% equivalent BUT it only works if you pay enough tax AND you are locked in for 5 years, so you will need to pay enough tax every year.

Sounds familiar from her ramblings last night - she quoted 6+%, will cross the subject tonight with her.....

Potter wrote: Tue Nov 09, 2021 1:48 pm

Mr. Dazzle wrote: Tue Nov 09, 2021 1:23 pm I'm also "only" 37 so being more in equities is less of a risk at my age. Well, it's the same level of risk but i've got longer to get it back

Don't take that for granted matey, five minutes ago I was also 37 - but somehow I aged 11yrs in five minutes.

I'm now extremely lucky in that I could put money away for five years no problem, but even then it doesn't pay enough that I can be arsed to do it, I don't want to put figures in because the thread will go wrong, but even if you drop six figures into one of these accounts it'll still struggle to match inflation.

In fact, the best way to beat inflation is to keep working and earning every month.
Or buy the right kind of physical assets and hope the arse end doesn't fall out.

Bricks and mortar, Rodney, if it wasn't for your conscience.

Mr. Dazzle wrote: Tue Nov 09, 2021 2:04 pm

Potter wrote: Tue Nov 09, 2021 1:48 pm In fact, the best way to beat inflation is to keep working and earning every month.

I am fortunate in that there's nothing much I want to spend my money on, so I'll save it until there is

Well that's not quite true, that bloody Bonneville is a bigger money pit than Julian's YPVS and baby Dazzle's school costs more than a Porsche. But I've never really had magpie tendencies (or I've grown out of them!).

So for now, I'll just save

Oi, that's uncalled for, and I've got multiple money pits.

Potter wrote: Tue Nov 09, 2021 1:48 pm
Or buy the right kind of physical assets and hope the arse end doesn't fall out.

How about houses? And how about letting them out, to people who can't afford to buy - for a bit of income?

Oh....

Potter wrote: Wed Nov 10, 2021 1:43 am one has to have principles.

I can't remember your exact wording, was it something along the lines of not profiting from others needing homes?

If so, could you set an 'acceptable' (to you) level of gain from property price increases - perhaps equivalent to how your watches increase in value - then adjust rents accordingly?

Providing homes is a necessary service, if you don't then someone else, possibly less scrupulous, will.

Potter wrote: Wed Nov 10, 2021 1:43 am

slowsider wrote: Tue Nov 09, 2021 3:22 pm
Bricks and mortar, Rodney, if it wasn't for your conscience.

It's not my conscience, I don't owe anyone anything, they'll have to struggle like I did/do, but one has to have principles.

Maybe invest in construction and alleviate the problem, then rent them out at below market rate?
Proudhon, not Rachman.

Potter wrote: Wed Nov 10, 2021 9:06 am

Horse wrote: Wed Nov 10, 2021 7:45 am
I can't remember your exact wording, was it something along the lines of not profiting from others needing homes?

If so, could you set an 'acceptable' (to you) level of gain from property price increases - perhaps equivalent to how your watches increase in value - then adjust rents accordingly?

Providing homes is a necessary service, if you don't then someone else, possibly less scrupulous, will.

I’ve got enough on my plate without fixing this problem for the UK.

And comparing an essential family home to a luxury watch just shows how deep the mindset that homes equal profit runs.
You’re literally incapable of thinking about family homes without tying in some sort of profit on them.

Errr weren't you the one who introduced not wanting to 'profit' from others' housing need?

And apologies if I've misunderstood.

I'm renting my other place out. It's a fair ish rent in that it's lower than market value. And I'm a fair landlord, I do stuff when I'm asked, I pay for some local 'management' in case I'm not available. I have a decent relationship with my tenants. It's not always like this - I've had tenants who were massive pisstakers and, mincing no words, disgusting pigs.

I'm bored of being tarred by other people's loopy moral opinions on what is an 'honest investment' when it comes to housing. It's not fecking slave trading. It's not even sitting in a luxury pad while low paid forrin guttersnipes clean the house, wash the car and tend the 'pool. if I didn't do it, someone else in the private sector, inevitably far more in it to squeeze every penny, would be doing it OR it'd be gleefully mismanaged by Boris and his platoon of old school chums and their degrees in the classics and embezzlement.

I have premium bonds too but they're shit as an investment. I just use it as a slightly less shit savings account, in the blind hope that I might win big and then buy a third luxury pad with low paid forrin guttersnipes to clean the house, wash the car and tend the 'pool.

I was always a fair landlord in the UK.
But when it comes to our apartment here, we squeeze every last drop out of it. We need to, as AirBnB and the taxman rape us. It's our only income so have to maximise it. But we make sure our guests have a splendid time

Potter wrote: Wed Nov 10, 2021 10:39 am

Horse wrote: Wed Nov 10, 2021 9:51 am
Errr weren't you the one who introduced not wanting to 'profit' from others' housing need?

Yes, and your question was how much is it ok to make? How about none? You're so welded to the idea that as soon as you hear the word house you automatically start talking about how much profit is it ok to make, not whether you should or not, but just how much.

People in the UK cannot talk about houses/homes without considering profit.

No, it wasn't a question, it was a suggestion, a compromise, with the outcome that you didn't make a profit (or any more than you decided to). I used luxury watches as a comparison because you often post about them and how checking how their value has increased while just left in a drawer.

Yes, you're probably right about the general attitude to property here. Part of that is that, if you're to support yourself into retirement and infirmity, you will need funds to do so. For many people, their home is an investment, so it would be a bit perverse to not consider 'profit'.

It would be nice if the rental market worked better in the UK. The last 20 years or so has seen the rise of the 'professional' buy-to-letter working with borrowed capital and using the rising asset value to borrow and buy more. Rents have to then pay the cost of borrowing. It's pushed house prices up and pushed rents up making either renting or 'getting on the housing ladder' really difficult.

TBH if it did work better I'd seriously consider planning to rent and realise some capital from selling up. That way someone else can look after the maintenance etc. (Equity release is just borrowing and shoving the interest burden down the road). I really do not want to end up dropping off the perch surrounded by a small fortune's worth of bricks and glass.