ADHD & Autism

[Skub]

This is really tricky. Its really clear that there are a lot more people being diagnosed with neuro-diverse conditions than there ever have been in the past. But that doesn't mean that the conditions are more prevalent, but rather that they are being diagnosed more. The real question is whether or not that is a good thing. The answer to that, inevitably, is yes and no. It's definitely a yes for those kids who were either written off for being super introverted and awkward or naughty and disruptive, who now get diagnosis and support. But there are others who in the past would found ways to cope and lea happy productive lives, but now with a label that makes them special, choose to retreat into victimhood. What's even worse is the examples I have seen of neurodiverse parents who impose some kind of specialness on their children, which seems to be out of some kind of fear of the ordinary and the mundane. I knew a women at work whose children all had some alleged condition from dyslexia to prosopagnosia, whereas my assessment was that they were pretty mainstream, but were encouraged from birth to fulfil this role of having some condition which made them not ordinary. Meanwhile another colleague, who'd had a bit of a difficult life, coming from a family of alcoholics, who is spending thousands on private medicine purely to attain a diagnosis of ADHD. Ad far as I can see this is not to get treatment, but simply to get the badge, so that he can blame his anger on something with a name.

Am I too harsh in my assessment?

I don't think it's too harsh. I see it as along similar lines as getting a blue parking badge for having a mental issue. All it does is ensure things are less convenient for those with a physical issue who perhaps can't walk far.

[Docca]

Ironically, I’d try not and be too black and white with this discussion and the blue parking badge is a good example. One of my children has ADHD and is being assessed for ‘AUDHD’ ( that’s not a diagnosis rather than an increasingly common term used to describe an increasingly common representation of both autism and adhd).

I never sought a diagnosis - the school did. Schools are well placed now to have a broad understanding and be able to support such things. My son has been on ADHD meds for 3 years now. He doesn’t take them at the weekend or during holiday.

What difference has the diagnosis made? Well, his fine motor skills are shocking and he’s been given a laptop to use in class. He can type quicker than I can. In school- he’s in top classes for loads of stuff (sciences, maths, geography etc) and is as kind ( especially with animals) as you can get. Although it’s a registered disability, for most of the time you’d never guess. He used to scream at the TV ( excited not angry) and, to the blue badge point, run out of the car when parked and on one occasion got hit by a car because he couldn’t process how cars drove in a car park. ( we don’t have a blue badge but there are certainly enough spaces for everyone with a registered disability to have one. Twice).

I was told I had ADHD back in the stone ages of my youth and my close friend ( a psychiatrist) still stands by that. I don’t mind. I suspect all of my family are on the spectrum at some point, but then I think that’s true of everyone as we become increasingly aware of how we work.

There are extremes of that spectrum and it would be really disingenuous to suggest all diagnosis are equal, because they’re just not.

My view in shorter hand:

- schools now better placed to refer = more referrals
- some parents still see it as a way of explaining why they are shit parents = more referrals
- the system is monetised incorrectly and you get paid as an organisation for the number of referrals you have = more referrals


Our ADHD wait list is currently…5 years. That’s years. For what? Something needs to change there.

I also think today’s world can’t be compared to 20 years ago just as I suppose 20 years from now will be quite different. Today children are surrounded with wall to wall noise. Look up ‘brain rot’ on YouTube: there is a whole genre of stuff to placate the minds of the already busy.

Anyway. It’s a real thing but we need to be more real and supportive in understanding it more.

[Taipan]

Without being rude, why do you need to know?

Unless it's something they've specifically asked you to help with, why do you think you need to know about it? (Apart from in a general sense that everyone ought to know something about everything.)

It's my understanding that autistic/ ADHD people tend to privacy about it and often don't want to be treated any differently, just respectfully.

I think it's worth knowing and understanding about it. For example, certain autistic behaviours might be seen as blunt / rude.

Absolutely,plus if they are perceived by others as rude,or abrupt,they will often be treated the same way in response.

I worked on the factory floor with a chap in the 70s/80s,who in retrospect was autistic and was seen as offhanded and rude when interacting with others. He was despised and often physically attacked,purely for things he said/didn't say,or how he acted. People thought he was an ignorant twat and a very poor human being. This brought out the very worst in pack behaviour,even from people who were generally non confrontational.

Different times,I know,but if more had been known about autism,then at least some folk may have treated him differently.

We have a guy at work who would have been pretty much unemployable a few year back when attitudes were very different! I had multiple email exchanges with him and he comes across well and is prompt and efficient. Then I met him. I was told by a colleague he had issues but i still wasn't prepared for how he was, but i was certainly glad for the heads up otherwise I could really have taken him the wrong way as has a maelstrom of responses!

Of course he has the right to privacy over his condition(s) but prior knowledge prepares you on how to deal with him and that must be better for him or anyone else like that? I'm not sure what the official rules are at our place, but I'd guess dept heads are informed and they cascade it down on a need to know/likely to meet basis?

I did disability support as part of a previous role and that was an eye opener and quite shocking on just how badly some people are treated and resented because of their disabilities, especially the non visible ones. The "Not all disabilities are visual" campaign was much needed. So yes its a good thing that attitudes have been changed by education and awareness.

[Noggin]

This is really tricky. Its really clear that there are a lot more people being diagnosed with neuro-diverse conditions than there ever have been in the past. But that doesn't mean that the conditions are more prevalent, but rather that they are being diagnosed more. The real question is whether or not that is a good thing. The answer to that, inevitably, is yes and no. It's definitely a yes for those kids who were either written off for being super introverted and awkward or naughty and disruptive. They now get diagnosis and support. But there are others who in the past would found ways to cope and lead happy productive lives, but now, with a label that makes them special, choose to retreat into victimhood. What's even worse are the examples I have seen of neurodiverse parents who impose some kind of specialness on their children. This seems to be out of some kind of fear of the ordinary and the mundane. I knew a woman at work whose children all had some alleged condition from dyslexia to prosopagnosia, whereas my assessment was that they were pretty mainstream. They were encouraged from birth to fulfil this role of having some condition which made them not ordinary. Meanwhile another colleague, who'd had a bit of a difficult life, coming from a family of alcoholics, is spending thousands on private medicine purely to attain a diagnosis of ADHD. As far as I can see this is not to get treatment, but simply to get the badge, so that he can blame his anger on something with a name.

Am I too harsh in my assessment?

I don't think you are being harsh. A diagnosis being helpful depends a lot on how it is handled post diagnosis.

My brother and I are both dyslexic and probably both ADHD (not mentioned the second to him yet) - we had similar experiences with school/dyslexic but handled it differently. Back then there was no help or understanding of an inability to read properly - so you were told you were stupid/thick etc.

I found a way to understand the words in a bundle (paragraph) and could manage - as long as I didn't have to read aloud in front of people , my brother kinda bailed a bit but he's got an amazing job now so it just took him a bit longer to find his way through.

From some of the reading suggested, I think we would both register fairly high on the ADHD scale. In different ways. But again, there was no understanding of these issues when we were at school and so we worked out how to deal with life. Again, different ways but then we had different families for the first 5/7 years of life, so our reactions etc won't be the same.


One of the reasons I wanted more information is that I worried that my friend has been given a diagnosis of autism and this has been turned into a reason that they cannot do 'stuff' . After their first ever break up recently, they said to me "how can I find someone else, I'm too autistic for anyone else to like me"

This horrified me because yes, maybe they are a little different in some ways, but that doesn't make them unloveable, or unable to find a path in life etc etc (and actually, I think they are a pretty bloody amazing person and am glad they see me as a friend)

Again, one of the reasons I wanted more info so I could see if I can work out how to talk to them without sounding judgy or blasé - just cos I was forced to find my way through various issues does not mean that is a good way or the right way !!

My age group of teens/young adults just had to find a way to deal with whatever 'weirdness' that was perceived about us. Most people found a way to deal with the weird and life. (Some didn't and suffered horribly). For my friend, I really want to try and help them see that whilst yes, it is a disability (depending on the level I guess?) but it is possible to find a way to deal with life and people and work etc.


@Docca Thank you Appreciate the info x

[Noggin]

Just to add, I think what I said above about diagnoses goes for any disability.

If you are told after an accident that you are disabled and there are lots of things you'll never do, you have two choices - accept that or fight back and work out what adaptations you need to sort out to do the things you want to do.

Too many people fold because they have no experience or positive help.

I've had this about my arm/shoulder a lot - the first thing was that my surgeon told me I'd never be able to put my hand behind my back (to do up my bra). My physio was "why not, that's silly"

the lovely surgeon has said every year that I've seen her since that she has stopped telling people they won't be able to do that post op as she knows it's possible (probably only with excellent physio)

So the reaction to all and any disability/diagnosis, physical or mental, shouldn't be straight up negative

[Horse]

Coincidentally ....

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cx20d4lr67lo

Trump officials are expected to make a disputed link between autism and the use of pain reliever Tylenol in pregnant women, according to US media reports.

At an Oval Office event on Monday, the US president will reportedly advise pregnant women in the US to take Tylenol, known as paracetamol elsewhere, only to relieve high fevers.

On Sunday, Trump said he had an "amazing" announcement coming on autism, adding that it was "out of control", but they might now have a reason why.

[Cousin Jack]

Just to add, I think what I said above about diagnoses goes for any disability.

If you are told after an accident that you are disabled and there are lots of things you'll never do, you have two choices - accept that or fight back and work out what adaptations you need to sort out to do the things you want to do.

Too many people fold because they have no experience or positive help.

I've had this about my arm/shoulder a lot - the first thing was that my surgeon told me I'd never be able to put my hand behind my back (to do up my bra). My physio was "why not, that's silly"

the lovely surgeon has said every year that I've seen her since that she has stopped telling people they won't be able to do that post op as she knows it's possible (probably only with excellent physio)

So the reaction to all and any disability/diagnosis, physical or mental, shouldn't be straight up negative

I get pissed off with 'disabled' people who 'cant work'. I worked with a mate Justin, motorcycle accident left him with a severed spinal cord, a crushed pelvis and massive internal organ damage. After almost 2 years in Stoke Mandeville hospital he retrained for a completely different job (he was an apprentice aircraft engineer before his accident) and works from a wheelchair. He is also the reason I will NEVER pinch a disabled parking bay.

[ZRX61]

I never sought a diagnosis - the school did. Schools are well placed now to have a broad understanding and be able to support such things. My son has been on ADHD meds for 3 years now. He doesn’t take them at the weekend or during holiday.

The elementary school my daughter attended decided she needed therapy for some odd speech defect they couldn't quite define... Then they spoke to me & realized she just had a slight British accent.

[ZRX61]

Coincidentally ....

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cx20d4lr67lo

Trump officials are expected to make a disputed link between autism and the use of pain reliever Tylenol in pregnant women, according to US media reports.

At an Oval Office event on Monday, the US president will reportedly advise pregnant women in the US to take Tylenol, known as paracetamol elsewhere, only to relieve high fevers.

On Sunday, Trump said he had an "amazing" announcement coming on autism, adding that it was "out of control", but they might now have a reason why.

Trump etc didn't make the link, Harvard did... & there's at least another 20 research papers that were suppressed...

[weeksy]

Lets stay away from the Politics side of things hey.

[wheelnut]

Following on from Tricky’s and Docca’s points, the label is a blessing and a curse, especially at school. We found that unless you had the diagnosis you never got anywhere with regards to a statement. Teachers (at least at the time my son was there 25 years ago) were woefully intolerant/ignorant of any ASD (in that example I mentioned about pulling socks up, my bewildered son was given detention). You needed a ‘badge’ in order to fight (and it was a fight back then) for any additional educational support.

I do feel that there are too many fully functioning adults searching for a diagnosis now and almost wearing it like a badge of honour. I’m not really sure what outcome they are hoping for from doing so.

[Taipan]

Following on from Tricky’s and Docca’s points, the label is a blessing and a curse, especially at school. We found that unless you had the diagnosis you never got anywhere with regards to a statement. Teachers (at least at the time my son was there 25 years ago) were woefully intolerant/ignorant of any ASD (in that example I mentioned about pulling socks up, my bewildered son was given detention). You needed a ‘badge’ in order to fight (and it was a fight back then) for any additional educational support.

I do feel that there are too many fully functioning adults searching for a diagnosis now and almost wearing it like a badge of honour. I’m not really sure what outcome they are hoping for from doing so.

Benefits in some cases.

[Noggin]

Just to add, I think what I said above about diagnoses goes for any disability.

If you are told after an accident that you are disabled and there are lots of things you'll never do, you have two choices - accept that or fight back and work out what adaptations you need to sort out to do the things you want to do.

Too many people fold because they have no experience or positive help.

I've had this about my arm/shoulder a lot - the first thing was that my surgeon told me I'd never be able to put my hand behind my back (to do up my bra). My physio was "why not, that's silly"

the lovely surgeon has said every year that I've seen her since that she has stopped telling people they won't be able to do that post op as she knows it's possible (probably only with excellent physio)

So the reaction to all and any disability/diagnosis, physical or mental, shouldn't be straight up negative

I get pissed off with 'disabled' people who 'cant work'. I worked with a mate Justin, motorcycle accident left him with a severed spinal cord, a crushed pelvis and massive internal organ damage. After almost 2 years in Stoke Mandeville hospital he retrained for a completely different job (he was an apprentice aircraft engineer before his accident) and works from a wheelchair. He is also the reason I will NEVER pinch a disabled parking bay.

This.

I was upset that the rehab centre wanted to register me as disabled for work and it took me almost 5 years to get my head around that because of the people that I know who really are disabled.
I did trackways with a guy that also raced, from a wheelchair. Another more public person went from racing bikes from a wheelchair chair to doing ski racing in a sit-ski.
I’ve known a load of people through bikes that still do TDs and racing with a missing limb.

To me it felt wrong to be labelled that when actually I just don’t have full movement or strength in that arm. But it’s kinda nice for work as a larger employer gets a tax break for employing me and also larger employers are more likely to accept that there are things I can’t do!

But often the diagnosis/label gives a pass to do less - which is sad

[Taipan]

Depends what people want from life. I've known people that have only been able to return to work after being recognised as disabled. The blue badge is just abut parking which is of course a great help, but having your disability recognised by your employer will open up many more avenues, everything from physical aids, to not having to exit upon the sounding of a fire alarm by waiting at the access points. Lazy fuckers are just lazy fuckers whether their disabled or able bodied, and there will always be benefit scroungers.

[ZRX61]

Following on from Tricky’s and Docca’s points, the label is a blessing and a curse, especially at school. We found that unless you had the diagnosis you never got anywhere with regards to a statement. Teachers (at least at the time my son was there 25 years ago) were woefully intolerant/ignorant of any ASD (in that example I mentioned about pulling socks up, my bewildered son was given detention). You needed a ‘badge’ in order to fight (and it was a fight back then) for any additional educational support.

I do feel that there are too many fully functioning adults searching for a diagnosis now and almost wearing it like a badge of honour. I’m not really sure what outcome they are hoping for from doing so.

We had one kid who was obviously autistic at school, he struggled & was always in the lowest of the 6 classes* each year. He was a bit Walter Mitty back in the day & came out with all sorts of wild tales about what he did at the weekend etc. It was always complete BS, but no one ever called him out on it.... So he was just known as a weird bullshitter, not autistic, because none of us knew about it.

He's now a somewhat successful lawyer in Blackpool & still doing the Walter Mitty thing according to a few of the former pupils who have met him over the years.

* classes as in all the same grade, not topics. (A1A through A1F for first year kids, up to A6A through A6F in sixth year IIRC) There were enough pupils each year to fill 6 classes of 30+ kids. He was always in the F class among the other dunces/future janitors.

[Spartacus]

This came up in a Google search so, hello.

Does anyone know if there are any treatments available for ADHD/Autism. I keep hearing conflicting information on drugs which may help.

Asking for a friend.

[mangocrazy]

If this post is considered inappropriate or offensive, please delete immediately.

What triggered this post was seeing user @Spartacus responding to a topic on ADHD and Autism. This immediately made me think of a song by the late, great Ian Dury, entitled 'Spasticus Autisticus), which was written in response to 1981 being designated 'International Year of the Disabled', as Ian found the whole thing unduly patronising. For his pains the song was effectively banned, being denied airplay by the BBC and other broadcasters.

Ian was disabled due to polio contracted in his childhood/early youth. There were some gems in the lyrics (as you would expect), such as :

I dribble when I piddle 'cos my middle is a riddle

and

I'm nobbled on the cobbles 'cos I wobble when I hobble

[Horse]

This came up in a Google search so, hello.

Does anyone know if there are any treatments available for ADHD/Autism. I keep hearing conflicting information on drugs which may help.

Asking for a friend.

If you mean 'cure', no.

My very limited understanding is there are drugs which can help manage ADHD.

However, tell your friend to see their GP, get formal diagnosis, then seek help.

Remember: ask here about squeaking brakes and you might be advised that a liberal application of WD40 will help

Good luck

[Horse]

If this post is considered inappropriate or offensive, please delete immediately.

What triggered this post was seeing user @Spartacus responding to a topic on ADHD and Autism. This immediately made me think of a song by the late, great Ian Dury, entitled 'Spasticus Autisticus), which was written in response to 1981 being designated 'International Year of the Disabled', as Ian found the whole thing unduly patronising. For his pains the song was effectively banned, being denied airplay by the BBC and other broadcasters.

Ian was disabled due to polio contracted in his childhood/early youth. There were some gems in the lyrics (as you would expect), such as :

I dribble when I piddle 'cos my middle is a riddle

and

I'm nobbled on the cobbles 'cos I wobble when I hobble

Similarly:

Warning: May Contain Nuts was a comedy project organised by BBC Radio Berkshire and charity Company Paradiso involving performance and creative writing related to mental illness

[Count Steer]

Well, apart from the recent flurry of publicity in certain quarters regarding 'treatment' the only thing that seems to have caused a buzz is bumetadine, a diuretic.

Very small investigation (~80 subjects) in the paper below. Contains links to related work.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41398-020-0692-2

General concensus though is that it's up to the world at large to change/accommodate rather than assume there's a cure on the horizon.