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Re: E-bike motors and the arms race of power !!
Posted: Sat Dec 06, 2025 9:24 pm
by weeksy
Whether it’s Bosch or anything else they’re not on my list.
The Crafty was awesome but it leaves me cold at the same time. Some of the climbs it just destroys with ease but the effort is part of the pleasure
Re: E-bike motors and the arms race of power !!
Posted: Sun Dec 07, 2025 5:00 pm
by mboy
weeksy wrote: Sat Dec 06, 2025 9:24 pm
Whether it’s Bosch or anything else they’re not on my list.
The Crafty was awesome but it leaves me cold at the same time. Some of the climbs it just destroys with ease but the effort is part of the pleasure
You are allowed to turn it down and put in more effort yourself!
Anyway... Pics...? What spec was it...?
Re: E-bike motors and the arms race of power !!
Posted: Sun Dec 07, 2025 5:33 pm
by weeksy
mboy wrote: Sun Dec 07, 2025 5:00 pm
weeksy wrote: Sat Dec 06, 2025 9:24 pm
Whether it’s Bosch or anything else they’re not on my list.
The Crafty was awesome but it leaves me cold at the same time. Some of the climbs it just destroys with ease but the effort is part of the pleasure
You are allowed to turn it down and put in more effort yourself!
Anyway... Pics...? What spec was it...?
As we were riding with manuals I had it in Eco a lot of the ride.
Black and blue one, newish demo bike
Mavens, AXS, dunno the rest lol. I’ll look tomorrow for you
Re: E-bike motors and the arms race of power !!
Posted: Mon Dec 08, 2025 7:28 am
by weeksy
to give the Crafty it's due, it really did impress at times.
The power was smooth, nice and smooth. It was also pretty damn quiet, even though i've got wonky ears these days, i was still impressed with the motor noise, or lack of it.
There was no motor rattle at all when descending... This both surprised and impressed me. No cable rattle either, just quiet.
The only area it fell down on was the perception of fitness/effort. Although i was achey yesterday, admittedly in slightly different areas.
Re: E-bike motors and the arms race of power !!
Posted: Mon Dec 08, 2025 12:00 pm
by mboy
If you’re riding with people on regular MTB’s when you’re on a full fat eBike, even in Eco you’re not going to get the same level of workout…
If you ride it solo, or with other people on full fat eMTB’s, you will be surprised just how hard you can work!
Re: E-bike motors and the arms race of power !!
Posted: Mon Dec 08, 2025 12:14 pm
by weeksy
Re: E-bike motors and the arms race of power !!
Posted: Mon Dec 08, 2025 12:15 pm
by weeksy
mboy wrote: Mon Dec 08, 2025 12:00 pm
If you’re riding with people on regular MTB’s when you’re on a full fat eBike, even in Eco you’re not going to get the same level of workout…
If you ride it solo, or with other people on full fat eMTB’s, you will be surprised just how hard you can work!
Yeah I don’t doubt that, well, I do a bit
But I get your point.
Re: E-bike motors and the arms race of power !!
Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2026 7:12 am
by weeksy
Lots of Amflow/Avinox out this weekend but i was absolutely blown away by the ratio of MTB/E-MTB, i think it was about 10-10 in favour of E-MTBs. It was arguably skewed by the fact that the places we were at this weekend were pretty steep and climby, but i barely saw a MTB all weekend. Packs of Eebs hunting the trails seems pretty common now at anyhwere.
Re: E-bike motors and the arms race of power !!
Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2026 8:06 am
by Mr Moofo
Much as i hated the concept of them e bikes have changed MTB - whilst every everyone says “it allows me to go further” , they generally don’t . They just go faster. It means you can go out when yo don’t really feel like it, it makes getting to the top of the Downs as breeze, it makes riding Surrey Hills far more accessible.
But they do wreck trails
Re: E-bike motors and the arms race of power !!
Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2026 8:09 am
by weeksy
Mr Moofo wrote: Mon Apr 27, 2026 8:06 am
Much as i hated the concept of them e bikes have changed MTB - whilst every everyone says “it allows me to go further” , they generally don’t . They just go faster. It means you can go out when yo don’t really feel like it, it makes getting to the top of the Downs as breeze, it makes riding Surrey Hills far more accessible.
But they do wreck trails
I'm not sure that it's the actual power of them that wrecks trails, but more the fact there's 3X the number of people and they're all doing 3X the number of runs, so someone would hit Barry knows best maybe twice in a ride, but now between them and their new mates who didn't used to ride they're putting 12 runs down it... So trail wear deffo becomes higher.
But taken in it's own instance, i'm not sure bike 1, doing 1 run, is any worse on the trails.
It's totally changed the sport, i'd guess it's arguably more social now for many middle aged riders, i see them passing me on the hills, chatting shit like they're cruising (which they are of course) and enjoying it.... I can't argue/fault that in many ways.
Re: E-bike motors and the arms race of power !!
Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2026 1:09 pm
by Mr Moofo
weeksy wrote: Mon Apr 27, 2026 8:09 am
Mr Moofo wrote: Mon Apr 27, 2026 8:06 am
Much as i hated the concept of them e bikes have changed MTB - whilst every everyone says “it allows me to go further” , they generally don’t . They just go faster. It means you can go out when yo don’t really feel like it, it makes getting to the top of the Downs as breeze, it makes riding Surrey Hills far more accessible.
But they do wreck trails
I'm not sure that it's the actual power of them that wrecks trails, but more the fact there's 3X the number of people and they're all doing 3X the number of runs, so someone would hit Barry knows best maybe twice in a ride, but now between them and their new mates who didn't used to ride they're putting 12 runs down it... So trail wear deffo becomes higher.
But taken in it's own instance, i'm not sure bike 1, doing 1 run, is any worse on the trails.
It's totally changed the sport, i'd guess it's arguably more social now for many middle aged riders, i see them passing me on the hills, chatting shit like they're cruising (which they are of course) and enjoying it.... I can't argue/fault that in many ways.
It’s no of runs, the “aggression” of those runs - and the extra weight of the bike …
Re: E-bike motors and the arms race of power !!
Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2026 8:31 pm
by MingtheMerciless
Must admit to enjoy chasing down the Eebs on the Friston trails on my hardtail. It's either that or pacing me to get a better time as I try to keep them in sight.
Re: E-bike motors and the arms race of power !!
Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2026 9:20 pm
by weeksy
MingtheMerciless wrote: Mon Apr 27, 2026 8:31 pm
Must admit to enjoy chasing down the Eebs on the Friston trails on my hardtail. It's either that or pacing me to get a better time as I try to keep them in sight.
Depends on terrain. 15mph is a hell of a speed uphill.
Re: E-bike motors and the arms race of power !!
Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2026 9:15 am
by MingtheMerciless
weeksy wrote: Mon Apr 27, 2026 9:20 pm
MingtheMerciless wrote: Mon Apr 27, 2026 8:31 pm
Must admit to enjoy chasing down the Eebs on the Friston trails on my hardtail. It's either that or pacing me to get a better time as I try to keep them in sight.
Depends on terrain. 15mph is a hell of a speed uphill.
Most Friston trails contour gently down, to help maintain speed, apart from the end of "Clint Eastwood" (for ages it was the trail with no name) which is nearly a mile long and the last 300m when you're blowing out of your @rse is uphill and it's a killer
.
Re: E-bike motors and the arms race of power !!
Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2026 9:20 am
by weeksy
Seeing quite a few Avinox issues since the M2S has been released. A lot of it seems to be switching modes and cutting out which may be FW and Update related by the looks of it. But seeing quite a few with "new bike back in shop after 2 rides". Can't say i'm hugely shocked in this day and age, but it's a bit confusing at times isn't it.
Re: E-bike motors and the arms race of power !!
Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2026 4:01 pm
by formula400
Tell you what, since getting the Amflow, I am itching to get out on it, never had that feeling with the Whyte t140,
Genuinely feeling like the old Supermoto days (to an extent)
I bloody love the power of it
Re: E-bike motors and the arms race of power !!
Posted: Fri May 01, 2026 10:29 pm
by mboy
Mr Moofo wrote: Mon Apr 27, 2026 1:09 pm
It’s no of runs, the “aggression” of those runs - and the extra weight of the bike …
Extra weight of the bike is minimal when you consider the "system weight" of the bike and rider together, which is what is critical... Typical rider is say 85kg, typical regular bike is say 15kg, typical eBike is say 25kg...
So the rider on a regular bike is 100kg, but the rider on an eBIke is only 110kg... As far as trail damage goes, that is totally negligible...
The increased damage will come simply because of the number of runs...
Re: E-bike motors and the arms race of power !!
Posted: Fri May 01, 2026 10:31 pm
by mboy
Bosch gets an update to 120Nm for what it's worth...
https://www.bikeradar.com/news/bosch-pe ... e-update-2
Personally, I couldn't care less... Rarely use 85Nm, mine is usually in Tour+ mode which I've set to 70Nm and even then the way I pedal, I'm rarely accessing that much torque even...
Re: E-bike motors and the arms race of power !!
Posted: Sun May 03, 2026 5:17 pm
by Mr Moofo
mboy wrote: Fri May 01, 2026 10:29 pm
Mr Moofo wrote: Mon Apr 27, 2026 1:09 pm
It’s no of runs, the “aggression” of those runs - and the extra weight of the bike …
Extra weight of the bike is minimal when you consider the "system weight" of the bike and rider together, which is what is critical... Typical rider is say 85kg, typical regular bike is say 15kg, typical eBike is say 25kg...
So the rider on a regular bike is 100kg, but the rider on an eBIke is only 110kg... As far as trail damage goes, that is totally negligible...
The increased damage will come simply because of the number of runs...
But then the power is put down through tyres more aggressively. And that before we get 1500 watt Avinox motors
Re: E-bike motors and the arms race of power !!
Posted: Mon May 04, 2026 5:44 pm
by Count Steer
Highway engineering describes road damage as a 'fourth power law' ie road damage increases to the 4th power for an increase in axle weight of vehicle. So a 10x heavier vehicle causes 10000x as much damage.
Can't imagine bicycles on tracks are immune so a few % increase in weight is likely to have a measurable effect on trail wear - alongside putting the extra power down through that small rear wheel contact patch and the additional trail usage.
