revtothelimit - motorbike forum

What Musk has done other than trying to be an uglier version of Tony Stark is get in first and go large.

The concept of a gigafactory is not new either but he bet the farm on EV being the next big thing.

He was right.

DEADPOOL wrote: Tue Dec 29, 2020 7:44 pm but he bet the farm on EV being the next big thing.

See this is the interesting thing - Tesla don't sell that many cars. It's more than Jaguar for sure, but it' tiny compared to VAG or Toyota. However Tesla are by far and away the most valuable (in terms market capitalisation) car company in the world. They don't even project to overtake, or come close to overtaking, the big players in terms of volume but they have already shot far past them in terms of pure value.

Weird right?

Tesla aren't really a car company I don't think, or at least they don't plan to be long term.

I am genuinely interested - I see nothing that suggests jag are using a single valve system - which is the clever part...

Mr. Dazzle wrote: Tue Dec 29, 2020 7:48 pm

DEADPOOL wrote: Tue Dec 29, 2020 7:44 pm but he bet the farm on EV being the next big thing.

See this is the interesting thing - Tesla don't sell that many cars. It's more than Jaguar for sure, but it' tiny compared to VAG or Toyota. However Tesla are by far and away the most valuable (in terms market capitalisation) car company in the world. They don't even project to overtake, or come close to overtaking, the big players in terms of volume but they have already shot far past them in terms of pure value.

Weird right?

Tesla aren't really a car company I don't think, or at least they don't plan to be long term.

He has tapped into various manufacturing subsidies, concentrated on battery production and has extraordinary economies of scale with his gigafactories. My guess is each factory can be reconfigured at the touch of a button. Raw materials go in one end, finished products come out the other. R&D is ultra high speed, everything is “just in time”, no import duties, shipping etc.

When you look at all the guff every other manufacturing process has to endure, his actual running costs must be tiny.

Worth having a Google at gigafactories, could be the only thing that stops the CCP from achieving world domination.

Wreckless Rat wrote: Tue Dec 29, 2020 8:05 pm I am genuinely interested - I see nothing that suggests jag are using a single valve system - which is the clever part...

It's literally 'just' a multiport rotary valve that can connect/disconnect lots of different pipes. I can buy one of them for a swimming poolhttps://www.1stdirectpools.com/pumps-fi ... ort-valves. A better example might be the one you find in the dashboard of your car for switching the hot air around. An even better one would be the control system in an auto gearbox.

More detailed explanation of how it works.



It's not a criticism of Tesla to say they recycle old ideas. I say it work so often that it's almost a cliché, but there are no new ideas.

EDIT: Slightly clearer idea here, it's the round bit in the middle-right. Looks like a puzzle app you get on a phone game doesn't it?

Mr. Dazzle wrote: Tue Dec 29, 2020 7:48 pm

DEADPOOL wrote: Tue Dec 29, 2020 7:44 pm but he bet the farm on EV being the next big thing.

See this is the interesting thing - Tesla don't sell that many cars. It's more than Jaguar for sure, but it' tiny compared to VAG or Toyota. However Tesla are by far and away the most valuable (in terms market capitalisation) car company in the world. They don't even project to overtake, or come close to overtaking, the big players in terms of volume but they have already shot far past them in terms of pure value.

Weird right?

Tesla aren't really a car company I don't think, or at least they don't plan to be long term.

Just watched something on Youtube that said Tesla lose money on every car they make...

They do however get 400 million dollars per year selling green (carbon?) credits to other car manufacturers and they post a profit of 100 million dollars per year.

demographic wrote: Tue Dec 29, 2020 9:08 pm

Mr. Dazzle wrote: Tue Dec 29, 2020 7:48 pm

DEADPOOL wrote: Tue Dec 29, 2020 7:44 pm but he bet the farm on EV being the next big thing.

See this is the interesting thing - Tesla don't sell that many cars. It's more than Jaguar for sure, but it' tiny compared to VAG or Toyota. However Tesla are by far and away the most valuable (in terms market capitalisation) car company in the world. They don't even project to overtake, or come close to overtaking, the big players in terms of volume but they have already shot far past them in terms of pure value.

Weird right?

Tesla aren't really a car company I don't think, or at least they don't plan to be long term.

Just watched something on Youtube that said Tesla lose money on every car they make...

They do however get 400 million dollars per year selling green (carbon?) credits to other car manufacturers and they post a profit of 100 million dollars per year.

This one by any chance?

Mr. Dazzle wrote: Tue Dec 29, 2020 9:11 pm This one by any chance?

Nope, Aussie bloke. Calls himself Auto Expert.
John Cadogan if I remember right.

This is sort of interesting. Ignore Hamilton. Be sure to watch to the end...

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/science-env ... t-55414712

Yorick wrote: Tue Dec 29, 2020 11:33 pm This is sort of interesting. Ignore Hamilton. Be sure to watch to the end...

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/science-env ... t-55414712

Shouldn't one of the drivers be Black/disabled/gay/gender neutral/. . . not simply female?

They're also going to the Amazon, presumably racing in de-forested areas. That'll be ecologically sound then.

Yorick wrote: Tue Dec 29, 2020 11:33 pm This is sort of interesting. Ignore Hamilton. Be sure to watch to the end...

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/science-env ... t-55414712

About 3-4 years ago now l was involved with doing some structural battery stuff for a firm building an electric bike for the TT - although I can't recall their name. They were planning to try and set an absolute record....I've just looked up the latest records and clearly they haven't achieved it yet They're not far off though.

The VW ID.R is the second fastest car ever around the 'ring, only the Porsche 919 Evo (a Le Mans car with all the rules stripped out) is faster.



The ID.R was also the first car ever to do sub 8 minutes at Pikes Peak, although I'm still not sure it should count now it's asphalt the whole way!

It also uses motors made in MK...in fact, that firm is a former employer of mine and the reason I moved here.

No such thing as a free lunch, it requires vast amounts of energy to be expended in the name of "sport" which has become the rich corporations playground for impossibly expensive gadgets to virtue signal from.

If Formula 1 is like banging your head against a brick wall, Extreme E is smacking yourself around the head with a brick.

"It's not as painful as banging your head against a brick wall" claims Lewis.

Sure but it's a whole lot more painful than not doing it at all, plus of course, at the moment, you are doing both!

"I hadn't thought of that" says Lewis.

Don't worry, no one is accusing you of doing any thinking. You're not killing the goose that lays your golden eggs to eat it, you're just kicking it to death to stop anyone else now you've had your fill.

It might not seem like it sometimes, but motorsport really does allow car companies to develop new technology. It's more subtle than being able to point to a component on a racing car, then point to the same thing on a road car. There is very little DIRECT read across.

However there is alot of general learning through motorsport. It gives you budget and motivation to try new things...often quite esoteric or in depth things. It also provides something to aim for. Trying to do something specific rather than generally kicking around ideas is often more productive.

You could say that "non specific" R&D would be just as useful, but there's nothing like having something to aim for to provide direction and motivation.

In fairness there is also a lot of general R&D going on, a lot funded by government. Government backed R&D provides huge returns on investment.

That gets to the thrust of my argument: how much additional development must F1/eByeGumball have to make in product development to offset the carbon footprint of doing it in the first place?

Mr. Dazzle wrote: Wed Dec 30, 2020 8:01 am
The ID.R was also the first car ever to do sub 8 minutes at Pikes Peak, although I'm still not sure it should count now it's asphalt the whole way!

It also uses motors made in MK...in fact, that firm is a former employer of mine and the reason I moved here.

Also, iirc electric cars will have a good advantage on the PP due to the altitude.

DEADPOOL wrote: Wed Dec 30, 2020 8:57 am That gets to the thrust of my argument: how much additional development must F1/eByeGumball have to make in product development to offset the carbon footprint of doing it in the first place?

F1 estimate their emissions at around 250,000 tonnes of CO2 a year...I think that includes everything, i.e. flying all over the place and actually building the cars etc. For scale the UK as a whole is about 350 million tonnes a year.

How much product development is that? Dunno really! How would you quantify it?

Mr. Dazzle wrote: Wed Dec 30, 2020 9:06 am

DEADPOOL wrote: Wed Dec 30, 2020 8:57 am That gets to the thrust of my argument: how much additional development must F1/eByeGumball have to make in product development to offset the carbon footprint of doing it in the first place?

F1 estimate their emissions at around 250,000 tonnes of CO2 a year...I think that includes everything, i.e. flying all over the place and actually building the cars etc. For scale the UK as a whole is about 350 million tonnes a year.

How much product development is that? Dunno really! How would you quantify it?

Good grief, that's even worse than I thought. A single sporting event which kicks out as much rubbish as an entire developed nation?

I'm all for it tbh. I appreciate the sport, the technology, the sheer drama and fuck the planet. But I object to one of the key players preaching eco bollocks from such a platform. He should shut up and drive.

DEADPOOL wrote: Wed Dec 30, 2020 10:41 am Good grief, that's even worse than I thought. A single sporting event which kicks out as much rubbish as an entire developed nation?

I'm all for it tbh. I appreciate the sport, the technology, the sheer drama and fuck the planet. But I object to one of the key players preaching eco bollocks from such a platform. He should shut up and drive.

Which developed country are you referring to?

The Isle of Wight?

DEADPOOL wrote: Wed Dec 30, 2020 10:41 am

Mr. Dazzle wrote: Wed Dec 30, 2020 9:06 am

DEADPOOL wrote: Wed Dec 30, 2020 8:57 am That gets to the thrust of my argument: how much additional development must F1/eByeGumball have to make in product development to offset the carbon footprint of doing it in the first place?

F1 estimate their emissions at around 250,000 tonnes of CO2 a year...I think that includes everything, i.e. flying all over the place and actually building the cars etc. For scale the UK as a whole is about 350 million tonnes a year.

How much product development is that? Dunno really! How would you quantify it?

Good grief, that's even worse than I thought. A single sporting event which kicks out as much rubbish as an entire developed nation?

I'm all for it tbh. I appreciate the sport, the technology, the sheer drama and fuck the planet. But I object to one of the key players preaching eco bollocks from such a platform. He should shut up and drive.

Count the zeroes again