Lucy Letby

[IccyV2]

I suspect the legal profession have a robust, defined and well understood grasp of what on the balance of probability and beyond reasonable doubt mean.

Fortunately AI will take over soon and the law will be balanced properly, rather than left to a room full of chancers.
If I were a solicitor or barrister now I'd start retraining as a plumber, their days are numbered.

My partner uses AI for legal work. It's helpful but it's no-where near ready to do it all itself yet. She thinks she'll be retired before that happens.

Just as well, I don't think she'd be very good at plumbing. Nor I suspect do most plumbers earn what a senior director or equity partner of a major international law firm earn.

Back when I was working for the major corporate multinationals, about five years ago, we trialled an allegedly cutting edge AI system for bidding large scale contracts. At that point it was worse than useless. I imagine it'll get there but probably not for a while yet.

Plumbers and lawyers earn about the same, that's why I compared them.
A junior plumber earns the same as a junior lawyer and then they're about equal all the way up to senior director roles.

Five years is a very long time in this sphere, five years ago no one was using even ChatGPT type stuff to write documents, now everyone is.
Back then even RPA wasn't being used properly, now it's taken jobs because one person using attended automation can do what five people used to do in the same time.

We have stuff in place now using unattended automation using it's own logic and it just needs oversight.
The process is slow if you're building your own closed system, you can't use open learning because you'll give your IP away, so you have to input the data just like you're teaching a trainee how to do the job.

I think we'll see job losses at scale due to unattended automation tech within a few years, it's already doing what most junior office employees do. Most people that aren't running a business at a strategic level will be quite surprised when it takes their jobs.

What it can't do is fix your gas boiler, so a self-employed gas safe plumber on £100k+ is safe for a while yet.

[Yorick]

Once can be a mistake.

15 times guilty. How much guiltier can she be.

[MyLittleStudPony]

Fortunately AI will take over soon and the law will be balanced properly, rather than left to a room full of chancers.
If I were a solicitor or barrister now I'd start retraining as a plumber, their days are numbered.

My partner uses AI for legal work. It's helpful but it's no-where near ready to do it all itself yet. She thinks she'll be retired before that happens.

Just as well, I don't think she'd be very good at plumbing. Nor I suspect do most plumbers earn what a senior director or equity partner of a major international law firm earn.

Back when I was working for the major corporate multinationals, about five years ago, we trialled an allegedly cutting edge AI system for bidding large scale contracts. At that point it was worse than useless. I imagine it'll get there but probably not for a while yet.

Plumbers and lawyers earn about the same, that's why I compared them.
A junior plumber earns the same as a junior lawyer and then they're about equal all the way up to senior director roles.

Five years is a very long time in this sphere, five years ago no one was using even ChatGPT type stuff to write documents, now everyone is.
Back then even RPA wasn't being used properly, now it's taken jobs because one person using attended automation can do what five people used to do in the same time.

We have stuff in place now using unattended automation using it's own logic and it just needs oversight.
The process is slow if you're building your own closed system, you can't use open learning because you'll give your IP away, so you have to input the data just like you're teaching a trainee how to do the job.

I think we'll see job losses at scale due to unattended automation tech within a few years, it's already doing what most junior office employees do. Most people that aren't running a business at a strategic level will be quite surprised when it takes their jobs.

What it can't do is fix your gas boiler, so a self-employed gas safe plumber on £100k+ is safe for a while yet.

I think AI is not for me. Export of refuse derived and solid recovered fuels, along with a ha'peth of taxiing to keep me of the Chablis before lunch is all I'm up to these days. TBH I'm tempted to knock all that on the head of late.

And I'm told the good law firms start their newly qualified grads on well over £100k while the senior staff will be on over £1m. Great to hear the plumbers are doing that well too.

[Mussels]

Once can be a mistake.

15 times guilty. How much guiltier can she be.

2 trials, 1 (dishonest?) prosecution team, 1 questionable expert witness it all hinged on.
She could easily be the victim, there needs to be better scrutiny.

[Mussels]

My partner uses AI for legal work. It's helpful but it's no-where near ready to do it all itself yet. She thinks she'll be retired before that happens.

Just as well, I don't think she'd be very good at plumbing. Nor I suspect do most plumbers earn what a senior director or equity partner of a major international law firm earn.

Back when I was working for the major corporate multinationals, about five years ago, we trialled an allegedly cutting edge AI system for bidding large scale contracts. At that point it was worse than useless. I imagine it'll get there but probably not for a while yet.

Plumbers and lawyers earn about the same, that's why I compared them.
A junior plumber earns the same as a junior lawyer and then they're about equal all the way up to senior director roles.

Five years is a very long time in this sphere, five years ago no one was using even ChatGPT type stuff to write documents, now everyone is.
Back then even RPA wasn't being used properly, now it's taken jobs because one person using attended automation can do what five people used to do in the same time.

We have stuff in place now using unattended automation using it's own logic and it just needs oversight.
The process is slow if you're building your own closed system, you can't use open learning because you'll give your IP away, so you have to input the data just like you're teaching a trainee how to do the job.

I think we'll see job losses at scale due to unattended automation tech within a few years, it's already doing what most junior office employees do. Most people that aren't running a business at a strategic level will be quite surprised when it takes their jobs.

What it can't do is fix your gas boiler, so a self-employed gas safe plumber on £100k+ is safe for a while yet.

I think AI is not for me. Export of refuse derived and solid recovered fuels, along with a ha'peth of taxiing to keep me of the Chablis before lunch is all I'm up to these days. TBH I'm tempted to knock all that on the head of late.

And I'm told the good law firms start their newly qualified grads on well over £100k while the senior staff will be on over £1m. Great to hear the plumbers are doing that well too.

Remember the Pimlico Plumbers program several years ago? Many of the plumbers were on over 100k back then and the boss has appeared on Secret Millionaire.
£100k plumbers may be uncommon but so are £100k lawyers.

[Yorick]

What about the £100k programmers

[weeksy]

What about the £100k programmers

They're boring bastards who just constantly want to tell us how fucking wonderful they are.

Then another time

Then another

[Horse]

Once can be a mistake.

15 times guilty. How much guiltier can she be.

2 trials, 1 (dishonest?) prosecution team, 1 questionable expert witness it all hinged on.
She could easily be the victim, there needs to be better scrutiny.

If she was found guilty, doesn't that make her defence team the questionable ones?

[Yorick]

What about the £100k programmers

They're boring bastards who just constantly want to tell us how fucking wonderful they are.

Then another time

Then another

Woah big fella

I was a DBA not programmer and nowhere near those wages

I wish I had been, as my employment pensions aren't a patch on yours. And that's not a dig, I'm pleased for you.

[MyLittleStudPony]

Plumbers and lawyers earn about the same, that's why I compared them.
A junior plumber earns the same as a junior lawyer and then they're about equal all the way up to senior director roles.

Five years is a very long time in this sphere, five years ago no one was using even ChatGPT type stuff to write documents, now everyone is.
Back then even RPA wasn't being used properly, now it's taken jobs because one person using attended automation can do what five people used to do in the same time.

We have stuff in place now using unattended automation using it's own logic and it just needs oversight.
The process is slow if you're building your own closed system, you can't use open learning because you'll give your IP away, so you have to input the data just like you're teaching a trainee how to do the job.

I think we'll see job losses at scale due to unattended automation tech within a few years, it's already doing what most junior office employees do. Most people that aren't running a business at a strategic level will be quite surprised when it takes their jobs.

What it can't do is fix your gas boiler, so a self-employed gas safe plumber on £100k+ is safe for a while yet.

I think AI is not for me. Export of refuse derived and solid recovered fuels, along with a ha'peth of taxiing to keep me of the Chablis before lunch is all I'm up to these days. TBH I'm tempted to knock all that on the head of late.

And I'm told the good law firms start their newly qualified grads on well over £100k while the senior staff will be on over £1m. Great to hear the plumbers are doing that well too.

Remember the Pimlico Plumbers program several years ago? Many of the plumbers were on over 100k back then and the boss has appeared on Secret Millionaire.
£100k plumbers may be uncommon but so are £100k lawyers.

I don't think £100k is unusual for lawyers. The best firms start new trainees on more than and their top staff will be on a few million a year.

I have no idea what plumbers earn but I'm glad to hear they're doing well. All the pipe bending and soldering must be awkward. And dealing with human excrement.

[Mussels]

I don't think £100k is unusual for lawyers. The best firms start new trainees on more than and their top staff will be on a few million a year.

I have no idea what plumbers earn but I'm glad to hear they're doing well. All the pipe bending and soldering must be awkward. And dealing with human excrement.

In corporate law that may be true but they aren't the majority.
Criminal barristers are complaining they don't get minimum wage, the CPS is not a bad payer for civil service lawyers and only 2 positions top 100k.
https://www.cps.gov.uk/foi/2025/breakdo ... egal-staff

Not long back I had a circuit judge (KC) living in my garage, he was there as he was a naughty boy but he clearly didn't have bags of money for a swanky pied-à-terre in the city.

[IccyV2]

I think AI is not for me. Export of refuse derived and solid recovered fuels, along with a ha'peth of taxiing to keep me of the Chablis before lunch is all I'm up to these days. TBH I'm tempted to knock all that on the head of late.

It won’t be for you when it takes your taxi driving job as well.
Driverless taxis are already live, no humans required.

Lawyers, taxi drivers, etc, they’re all jobs that will be gone in a decade.

The trades will come out of it absolutely minted.
And jet ski manufacturing.

[Horse]

I think AI is not for me.

It won’t be for you when it takes your taxi driving job as well.
Driverless taxis are already live, no humans required.

Lawyers, taxi drivers, etc, they’re all jobs that will be gone in a decade.

The trades will come out of it absolutely minted.
And jet ski manufacturing.

See the chart:

viewtopic.php?t=11763

[Count Steer]

Even table tennis players are going to be redundant.

(The video clip is worth a look).

https://theconversation.com/table-tenni ... sation.com

[Bobzilla]

Fortunately AI will take over soon and the law will be balanced properly, rather than left to a room full of chancers.
If I were a solicitor or barrister now I'd start retraining as a plumber, their days are numbered.

AI literally makes things up of it doesn't know. There are numerous cases against litigants in person (and a small number of layers) who have cited non existent cases that Chat GPT has told them about.

AI will give you *an* answer, but it needs a skilled professional to work out if it's the correct answer, or if there is something that they have missed. I don't doubt it's value, but I do doubt its ability to deliver a final product without significant human involvement.

It's not perfect yet, but neither is the current system and that's been going for a while.

The problem with the law is it's open to too much interpretation and the application of the law has more to do with how charismatic your barrister is than the actual application of principle. Same in contract law, it's how to blindside the opposition rather than work on the mutual equity of principles.

I had my eyes opened during the first few weeks of my LLB, I thought the law was set, but it's a malleable thing that can be manipulated until it suits a case and a decent argument by a smarter advocate. Statutory interpretation is a good example at the root of it, you just keep applying different principles and interpretations until you get one that fits.

It's a bit like tax law, it's got so many arms and legs the cleverest/most expensive advocate will win the day, instead of the rule of law being incorruptible.

The law should be a living breathing thing, developing as needs. But it's always based on precedent - the general principles are pretty static.

On tax, I disagree totally. It's not the smartest barrister that wins - it's very often the revenue that wins with taxpayer wins at lower tribunals being really quite rare. And the problem is that the lower tribunals define the facts, and it's basically impossible for different facts to be found later. And those facts can be things like deciding why the taxpayer did something.

[Bobzilla]

Once can be a mistake.

15 times guilty. How much guiltier can she be.

When you're using the same evidence for each of the 15 counts, and using the existence of each the 15 counts to justify each of the other 14, actually the chance of one little thing having a massive impact on the overall conviction is huge.

The death rate in that neo natal unit was already high, and was still high when you discount all of the deaths that she got convicted of. What's more likely, that you've got a chronically underfunded NN unit taking on patients that it is not resourced or experienced enough to deal with, and so you've got a high death rate and a very stressed member of staff on the verge of collapsing, or that in that same under-resourced department you've got a serial killer running about. The number of unexplained deaths vs the number of murders is already a red flag for me, and of itself creates a significant element of doubt.

[ZRX61]

What about the £100k programmers

My ex is currently making about $180k, not your average programmer though, she works on super secret black projects. No idea WTF she's working on now, but she did the targeting software for F117's back in the day. Apparently it's hereditary as her dad was responsible for the guidance software on the Minuteman III.


So if a weapon goes rogue out at Edwards AFB or Groom Lake & hits my house, I suspect she might be involved... The fact that she's a bipolar, schizophrenic sociopath won't help her plausible deniability...