revtothelimit - motorbike forum

It's interesting, to me anyway, how the emphasis has changed from EVs being touted as cheap, almost free, to run as they were in the early days. Much more about pollution now.

Things I care about in a van.
Load space, got to be able to carry a big toolsafe as well as the odd 8'×4' sheet of ply in the back.
Reliable, none of that DPF, Adblue, and exploding dual mass flywheel shite if I can keep away from them.
Not too much electronic shite on it, I'll even avoid lecky windows if I can and I'd far rather have a cheap shitty stereo that I can swap for whatever Halfords has on offer that week than some top of the range thing thats integrated with every system and a bastard to swap over in two years when its obsolete.
A more reliable motor thats less environmentally damaging or at the very least doesnt throw out diesel fumes sounds like a great option to me.

Currently I own a Toyota Hiace so looks are obviously a lvery ong way down my list of needs, its an appliance not a fashion or lifestyle <shudder> statement.
Some people pay more for all the extras, I avoid most of the extras like the plague.

Be nice if it can hoss on a bit but it's not the end of the world.

So I kind of want lecky vehicles to mature a bit to the point when they realise that some people just want a roof with a wheel on each corner thats reliable. Thats how come I keep looking at the old vehicles with the crate motors.

I honestly want the internal combustion engines I own now to be the last ones I buy, my vans pretty long in the tooth so might have to buy another before electric vans get to the point when I can afford or they're viable for me but I'm keeping a very close eye on the technology and its implementation.

Even if the range thing gets sorted (I want 300 miles as a minimum, with the heater, lights and wipers on and at M'way speeds), I still have a huge problem with charging. I live in what is technically a listed building, in a conservation area, and in a World Heritage Site. I don't have a garage, and my parking space is 20 metres away from my property. The bureaucracy needed to get a charging point fitted would take forever, and the cost would be crippling. The chance of roadside charging is effectively zero, and the emmets block all the roadside parking for 8 months of the year anyway. So that leaves me with Asda a mile away, where IME all 3 electric bays are coned off most of the time.

I think I will be sticking with my hybrid, and if necessary buying a new hybrid just before they get banned.

Ice vehicles only here, until the lawmakers tell me otherwise.

Cousin Jack wrote: Fri Dec 18, 2020 8:04 pm
listed building, in a conservation area, and in a World Heritage Site. I don't have a garage, and my parking space is 20 metres away from my property. The bureaucracy needed to get a charging point fitted would take forever, and the cost would be crippling.

So a dedicated parking space (drop down post) and in-surface inductive charging. Sorted. Invoice in the post/email

Cousin Jack wrote: Fri Dec 18, 2020 8:04 pm
if necessary buying a new hybrid just before they get banned.

Vague memory is that the battery only distance requirement will exceed most/all current hybrids.

Horse wrote: Fri Dec 18, 2020 8:12 pm So a dedicated parking space (drop down post) and in-surface inductive charging. Sorted. Invoice in the post/email


Vague memory is that the battery only distance requirement will exceed most/all current hybrids.

Digging up across multiple other properties would still need all the permissions (property owners, management company, planning permission, listed building planning permission and impact assessment from assorted heritage bodies), followed with a requirement to reinstate a VERY expensive psuedo-cobbled surface that was a feature of the original permission to build. A wheelbarrow of tarmac and a whacker plate is not going to cut it.

I filled my current hybrid yesterday. Dash tells me it has a range of 550 miles. If I drive it carefully for a few miles that may actually go up a bit.

Cousin Jack wrote: Fri Dec 18, 2020 8:24 pm

Horse wrote: Fri Dec 18, 2020 8:12 pm So a dedicated parking space (drop down post) and in-surface inductive charging. Sorted. Invoice in the post/email

Digging up across multiple other properties would still need all the permissions (property owners, management company, planning permission, listed building planning permission and impact assessment from assorted heritage bodies), followed with a requirement to reinstate a VERY expensive psuedo-cobbled surface that was a feature of the original permission to build. A wheelbarrow of tarmac and a whacker plate is not going to cut it.

No need to take the power from your property, it would be no different to installation of a charger at a car park. Straight off the grid, controlled by an app.

Very expensive? A domestic charger is about £1k. Doing a whole bunch together would spread the surfacing costs.

Nothing impossible or insurmountable. And you wouldn’t get grockles using your space.

EV sales and $ in the US, interesting graphs and charts, market share, etc.:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... um=twitter

Horse wrote: Fri Dec 18, 2020 8:34 pm
No need to take the power from your property, it would be no different to installation of a charger at a car park. Straight off the grid, controlled by an app.

Very expensive? A domestic charger is about £1k. Doing a whole bunch together would spread the surfacing costs.

Nothing impossible or insurmountable. And you wouldn’t get grockles using your space.

'

Not impossible, but bloody inconvenient. You go electric, I'll stick with a hybrid thank you.

slowsider wrote: Fri Dec 18, 2020 7:30 pm

Mr. Dazzle wrote: Fri Dec 18, 2020 5:50 pm

Horse wrote: Fri Dec 18, 2020 5:39 pm

I did in the bike thread. But only as a guess. I presume they need some sort of regular inspection, otherwise dealers will be losing out.

Ours don't. Fit and forget.

Everything "servicing" would be on board diagnostics. But realistically with so few moving parts (two) there's no real preventative maintenance requirement.

Still got transmission, brakes, bearings etc

It does, but its much simpler. EVs are single speed or sometimes twin speed and "sealed for life". Transmissions get an easier ride with the smoother electric motor. No oil to change (sealed for life again), no plugs, no clutch, no exhaust, no injection, no air filters etc.

The brakes last longer cause of regen. You can 'one pedal drive' a modern EV if you're so inclined. Brake by wire will be coming to road cars soon too, so even if you press the brake pedal that doesn't necessarily mean the brakes actually engage.

There's always gonna be servicing for sure, but it's alot less on an EV.

If Ducati build a leccy bike, will it still be a gazzillion pounds for a service ?


And Porsche, Ferrari and the big boys will have to find new ways to charge 10 gazzillion for a service

Yorick wrote: Fri Dec 18, 2020 10:34 pm
And Porsche, Ferrari and the big boys will have to find new ways to charge 10 gazzillion for a service

I doubt they'll need to try very hard. They'll just say "that's what it costs....deal with it" like they do now

Gets filed under "vehicle inspection".

Cousin Jack wrote: Fri Dec 18, 2020 8:24 pm

Horse wrote: Fri Dec 18, 2020 8:12 pm So a dedicated parking space (drop down post) and in-surface inductive charging. Sorted. Invoice in the post/email


Vague memory is that the battery only distance requirement will exceed most/all current hybrids.

Digging up across multiple other properties would still need all the permissions (property owners, management company, planning permission, listed building planning permission and impact assessment from assorted heritage bodies), followed with a requirement to reinstate a VERY expensive psuedo-cobbled surface that was a feature of the original permission to build. A wheelbarrow of tarmac and a whacker plate is not going to cut it.

I filled my current hybrid yesterday. Dash tells me it has a range of 550 miles. If I drive it carefully for a few miles that may actually go up a bit.

All the stuff you've listed was everyday work when I did External Planning for BT over 20 years ago, it's just paperwork and money, piece of piss if you know what you're doing.

We live on the edge of zone 1 - a cars not needed most of the time .
Our work BMW electric car has converted me to the principal completely though.
Infrastructure and cost will need to become more affordable - also maybe less cars on the road in cities woudnt be a bad thing although the symbolic nature of the car as a possession is very powerful

By chance there's a comparison test between an electric Porsche and a petrol Alfa Romeo on Pistonheads today...

https://www.pistonheads.com/news/ph-fea ... n-4s/43526

These are two cars which ostensibly do similar things, namely be an expensive 500bhp+ saloon car, but which go about it quite different ways. The electric Porsche wins out in a lot of areas, but inevitably gets a bit criticised for charging and cost. The difference is ALOT narrower than it used to be though. Its a matter of "when" not "if" now really.

BTW I reckon that Porsche is the first car I'd buy post lottery win.

Mr. Dazzle wrote: Fri Dec 18, 2020 10:11 pm There's always gonna be servicing for sure, but it's a lot less on an EV.

Yorick wrote: Fri Dec 18, 2020 10:34 pm And Porsche, Ferrari and the big boys will have to find new ways to charge 10 gazzillion for a service

Mr. Dazzle wrote: Fri Dec 18, 2020 10:46 pm I doubt they'll need to try very hard. They'll just say "that's what it costs....deal with it" like they do now

Do you really think it'll just be the big boys who are going to charge the earth for servicing?

I'm sure there'll be a fair bit less to service (and even less you'll be able to do yourself) so do you really think any service centre is going to take the attitude that they'll just charge less? They'll still have profit margins to meet, still want to maintain a level of work, still want to keep a roof over their heads. They'll all raise their charges.

I understand that you're the eternal optimist Dazzle but tell me the last time things got cheaper! Even VED will go up to level the playing field if they can't base it on emissions.

I can see it either way TBH.

In a pure technical sense there's less to do so it should be cheaper. In a cynical commercial sense they won't want to give up a revenue stream.

I imagine they will probably initially tout reduced servicing as a benefit, then slowly creep the costs back in.

Edit...or, perhaps more likely, the subscription based ownership model will be predominant. In that case reduced servicing is very much the desire for manufacturers.

Cousin Jack wrote: Fri Dec 18, 2020 8:24 pm
I filled my current hybrid yesterday. Dash tells me it has a range of 550 miles. If I drive it carefully for a few miles that may actually go up a bit.

Bit like my son's 280k mile Mk4 Golf Tdi then. Which one's greener, over a lifespan?

Just a thought. How much does it cost to build a 500 BHP petrol engine?

And would a 500 leccy motor be cheaper?

Or isn't it that simple to compare?

Cousin Jack wrote: Fri Dec 18, 2020 8:24 pm

Horse wrote: Fri Dec 18, 2020 8:12 pm So a dedicated parking space (drop down post) and in-surface inductive charging. Sorted. Invoice in the post/email


Vague memory is that the battery only distance requirement will exceed most/all current hybrids.

Digging up across multiple other properties would still need all the permissions (property owners, management company, planning permission, listed building planning permission and impact assessment from assorted heritage bodies), followed with a requirement to reinstate a VERY expensive psuedo-cobbled surface that was a feature of the original permission to build. A wheelbarrow of tarmac and a whacker plate is not going to cut it.

I filled my current hybrid yesterday. Dash tells me it has a range of 550 miles. If I drive it carefully for a few miles that may actually go up a bit.

No-one's spotted the awkward little detail yet. Mr Dazzle seems to have lost interest.

EV wireless charging will come, but not quite yet, and everybody is missing its big USP. You don't need a static charging base, inductive strips can go under every road. It won't be cheap, and how it's paid for will need to be sorted. It's already being trialled in France though.

'Pseudo-cobbled' surfaces are concrete print. Unless you have the templates that were used when it was originally laid there's no chance. Then there's colour matching...