revtothelimit - motorbike forum

Ye but, a faster rider will brake differently.

I can't find the test now but the difference between a set of slicks and a sports touring tyre in lap times with a decent rider is less than 5s a lap.
Just because a tyre is more suited to someones pace doesn't mean they can't buy one that isn't. It's their money so their choice. Trying to explain the touring tyre will offer more grip as it's at the more optimum temp is pointless, its why you see so many slicks in the novice and inter group. Ive been out on pirelli scorpion trail tyres at donington on an africa twin and had no one come past in inters, i don't know why any of those riders would fit anything other than a sports touring tyre. Probably vanity

That's because you're a better rider than them. Is it not possible if they were on Scorpion Trails they'd be slower again?

weeksy wrote: Mon Feb 08, 2021 8:15 pm That's because you're a better rider than them. Is it not possible if they were on Scorpion Trails they'd be slower again?

My bike wasn’t sliding so I wasn’t at the limit of my tyres, they can’t have been anywhere near the limit of theirs. Why would they go slower on a tyre that still gives more grip than they can use ?

Couchy wrote: Mon Feb 08, 2021 8:27 pm

weeksy wrote: Mon Feb 08, 2021 8:15 pm That's because you're a better rider than them. Is it not possible if they were on Scorpion Trails they'd be slower again?

My bike wasn’t sliding so I wasn’t at the limit of my tyres, they can’t have been anywhere near the limit of theirs. Why would they go slower on a tyre that still gives more grip than they can use ?

Because they don't think they can? Because they think it has even less grip

weeksy wrote: Mon Feb 08, 2021 8:32 pm

Couchy wrote: Mon Feb 08, 2021 8:27 pm

weeksy wrote: Mon Feb 08, 2021 8:15 pm That's because you're a better rider than them. Is it not possible if they were on Scorpion Trails they'd be slower again?

My bike wasn’t sliding so I wasn’t at the limit of my tyres, they can’t have been anywhere near the limit of theirs. Why would they go slower on a tyre that still gives more grip than they can use ?

Because they don't think they can? Because they think it has even less grip

So they fit a less grippy tyre and tell themselves it’s better, wow that’s some level of madness but I fear you’re right. It’s pointless trying to tell people what’s best as they make their own mind up and it’s their money so who cares

Couchy wrote: Mon Feb 08, 2021 8:27 pm

weeksy wrote: Mon Feb 08, 2021 8:15 pm That's because you're a better rider than them. Is it not possible if they were on Scorpion Trails they'd be slower again?

My bike wasn’t sliding so I wasn’t at the limit of my tyres, they can’t have been anywhere near the limit of theirs. Why would they go slower on a tyre that still gives more grip than they can use ?

You must be very smooth, I'm not very fast but I've always found road tyres to be a little slidey on trackdays once the tyre has got hot, nothing dangerous, just a little bit of spin from the rear exiting corners.

Le_Fromage_Grande wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 9:15 am

Couchy wrote: Mon Feb 08, 2021 8:27 pm

weeksy wrote: Mon Feb 08, 2021 8:15 pm That's because you're a better rider than them. Is it not possible if they were on Scorpion Trails they'd be slower again?

My bike wasn’t sliding so I wasn’t at the limit of my tyres, they can’t have been anywhere near the limit of theirs. Why would they go slower on a tyre that still gives more grip than they can use ?

You must be very smooth, I'm not very fast but I've always found road tyres to be a little slidey on trackdays once the tyre has got hot, nothing dangerous, just a little bit of spin from the rear exiting corners.

Not with girls he's not.

Le_Fromage_Grande wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 9:15 am

Couchy wrote: Mon Feb 08, 2021 8:27 pm

weeksy wrote: Mon Feb 08, 2021 8:15 pm That's because you're a better rider than them. Is it not possible if they were on Scorpion Trails they'd be slower again?

My bike wasn’t sliding so I wasn’t at the limit of my tyres, they can’t have been anywhere near the limit of theirs. Why would they go slower on a tyre that still gives more grip than they can use ?

You must be very smooth, I'm not very fast but I've always found road tyres to be a little slidey on trackdays once the tyre has got hot, nothing dangerous, just a little bit of spin from the rear exiting corners.

The Bonneville does that on its Dunlop TT100 Trigonics. I think it's mostly down to cack handedness.

Check out bikerrated.com, there’s an article entitled ‘the best motorcycle trackday tyres’. It’s not a bad article and has a fairly sensible take on the whole ‘which tyres’ debate

Weeksy, not trying to be sarcastic, but if you take your ‘better can simply be better’ motto to its ultimate conclusion you’d be using Marquez spec slicks/braking set up...and the chance of us mere mortals getting everything ‘up to working temperature’ are pretty slim !?

Dave@ERT wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 12:42 pm Weeksy, not trying to be sarcastic, but if you take your ‘better can simply be better’ motto to its ultimate conclusion you’d be using Marquez spec slicks/braking set up...and the chance of us mere mortals getting everything ‘up to working temperature’ are pretty slim !?

Well yes, of course there are limits. Some things work better at certain temps and circumstances. Hence kinda why i started the debate in the first place.

Don't forget, this discussion isn't just for me, it's for me, Mrs Weeksy and anyone and everyone else who has thoughts of "should i try...." etc. In this instance it's related to swapping from D213GPs to Conti Slicks for example, but could have easily have been from Diablos to D213GPs and anything and everything in between.

I think you seem to think "he's already made up his mind" however that's far from true. I've got 3 sets of treaded super sticky rubber in the loft waiting to go on the bike, so nothing is decided currently as to what happens then.

There's also thoughts i think that we're looking for an easy way to find speed, that's clearly not true either, she's got a days tuition booked with
https://www.schoolandcollegelistings.co ... evelopment
https://www.facebook.com/nemomoto.rd/

a riding coach. To help improve her weaknesses and potentially improve her skills as a rider too.

But most of all, this thread was here as are most of my threads, to encourage, provoke and instigate discussion on motorbikes

No, sorry if I’ve somehow given the impression that you’re either ‘fixed’ in your views or simply looking for easy speed...I don’t believe either to be the case I’m simply giving my opinion, and justifying it where necessary. I’ve said in an earlier post that everyone is very welcome to buy whatever they want...but getting ’the fastest’ tyres and getting the ‘fastest tyres for you’ can easily be very different. As you rightly say, anyone reading these posts in the future will have a variety of different opinions to reach their own conclusions from

I guess it's the same with most things in biking. Feel/what's in your head probably makes the biggest difference. If you feel good, you'll be happier and probably quicker. Although remove knowing what tyre's your on and you might find the results aren't what's expected.

For me cos I'm cheap I found Supercorsa's made me feel better and felt like they gripped more. But when I got offered 2 sets of free BT016s I snapped them up. I then found that whilst the first couple of sessions I was thinking 'These don't feel like they have quite as much grip' after that I forgot all about it and cracked on with my riding and found them really good. I can't remember a single issue with them and by the end I was top half/top third of Inters, but way off fast group. They also lasted wayyyyy longer than Supercorsa's and I reckon I was no slower. They also allowed you to go out on damp/wet tracks without worrying as much. I got 12 trackdays out of a set of 016s too before I felt like they'd gone. At £150 new a set now or whatever they are, they are much better value than a set of scrubs for 3 trackdays at 80 quid.

I also think it depends on what's important to you. I couldn't give a toss about lap times, no interest at all. For me trackdays is a chance to ride like I'd love to on the road without oncoming traffic, cars, side turnings etc. I don't even care about improving much. I found when I was doing loads of trackdays I got quicker, but mainly as I was doing it more. I didn't actually care to much though. If a second a lap means something then by all means fit what you think helps.

Faster lap times show improvements, so that's good. But I think greater gains are made by improving corner entry and exit and this might not always be determined by your tyres. Imo.

I'd say for Mrs Weeksy it's not about lap times but running more with the bunch in Inters. Plus to feel she's improving as a rider, if that's 0.2 or 4 sec I don't think anyone cares, we don't time, never have. But she'd like to overtake more people in a session than overtake her for example.
Obviously to an extent I'm putting words into her mouth as she's not replying, or indeed unlikely to have even read the thread, but I think I know her pretty well.

Best way to overtake is more power.

Yorick wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 2:35 pm Best way to overtake is more power.

That of course in some ways is true. But that's only if the rider can utilise that increase in power. I don't believe last year I got any quicker as a rider but I was able to pass people more because the XSR is quicker in the right bits than the 690 was.

One thing I'd like to do this year either by hiring or borrowing for a session is putting Mrs Weeksy on a big fast thing and seeing if indeed that's the case for her.
I've done countless laps near/with her so I'd say I know her strengths and weaknesses better than anyone.
Her strengths are corner speed and exit speed. Weaknesses being braking and outright power/ speed. I can close her down in the last 1/4 of a given straight just by staying on the throttle a bit longer and braking later.

But I do wonder whether more horses will just give her a bit of an intimidation factor. That's I guess what we were looking for the 750 to prove/disprove. But that plan has now gone for this year.

Total over simplification but in general I think tyres are like brakes for intermediate riders, they think they need 'more' - my experience of intermediate riders is they slow down too much for the corners and get harder on the throttle/tyre coming out, overloading the tyre and making it slide - ergo giving the message they need 'grippier' tyres, when the best course of action would be to take a little more corner speed.

I do it myself, the tyres behave a lot better when I push harder through the corners. And that's only on a CB500. Lol.

Dave@ERT wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 12:42 pm Weeksy, not trying to be sarcastic, but if you take your ‘better can simply be better’ motto to its ultimate conclusion you’d be using Marquez spec slicks/braking set up...and the chance of us mere mortals getting everything ‘up to working temperature’ are pretty slim !?

Reminds me of a chap I used to race with that bought an ex-BSB Ducati to race in Supertwins (longgg time ago when Yorick still lived in the UK...!), he was no faster than most people around him and they were only on beaten up old Aprilia RSV's with a pipe and remap. He couldn't ride it hard enough to get working properly. Pretty bike though.