revtothelimit - motorbike forum

Horse wrote: Tue Oct 03, 2023 5:31 pm

mboy wrote: Tue Oct 03, 2023 4:59 pm The thing is though, ... The fastest riders ain't necessarily any good at talking about bikes! Much as many road testers are/were wannabe racers that couldn't make it, the ability to ride a bike fast and talk coherently about the bike are two totally different skills.

And FWIW many good instructors are not particularly brilliant riders.

I've never claimed to be the fastest (or one of), or to have knee down, wheelying, stoppying, slip slidin' skills.

^ what he said...

KungFooBob wrote: Tue Oct 03, 2023 10:11 pm You're forgetting the all important 'character'!

Character is highly subjective...

It's all too easy for Journo's that ride everything, and don't actually pay to run their own bike, to fall into the trap of expecting everything to wow the socks off them and anything that doesn't is worthless... Watching all the reviews of the GSX-S1000 for instance, you'd think it was a bit crap, totally underwhelming even, where the reality is it's a bloody awesome fast road bike!

Back to my point though... I've fallen foul of the "character" excuse too many times myself. Just having this conversation with a mate who's sworn himself off Japanese bikes and in-line 4's these days on this very premise. Don't get me wrong, there's a wealth of really dull, boring Japanese in-line 4 bikes out there on the market. But there's also some absolute crackers! I've been lucky enough to own a Blackbird in the past, which had one of the very best engines ever fitted to a bike ever, if only the chassis/brakes/suspension/ergonomics could have caught up it would have been an even better bike than it ever was! My recent 20 plate GSX-S1000 acquisition has a similarly strong and characterful engine, but a better chassis and ergo's too, it really is a fantastic bike but gets overlooked for not being special enough... Thing is, I've owned many more "special" or "characterful" bikes, but I'm not convinced that they have been "better" because of it... Depends what you want I guess. I ride a lot more these days than I used to, and a lot further too. My priorities have changed for sure.

I've been seeking out and reading bike tests written by journalists in the 70's and 80's over the last week (injured myself in a gardening accident, so housebound for another few days).

They are far more entertaining than 99.9% of tests written today. Maybe that's because when they did their journalism degrees, they had an idea what they wanted to write about. Bikes, politics, cars, economics, whatever. But having an interest in a specific area, writing in a particular style, and writing with some integrity would get you noticed and keep you in work. I do wonder how some of them would review some of today's bikes?

Now it seems that the majority of reporters (I refuse to call them journalists) simply collect some facts about a subject and rearrange the words before commiting them to their laptops. Or maybe they are getting CPT chat to write it for them?

I do dislike a few of YouTube biking channels, particularly 44 Teeth and Yammienoob. Saying that, I've not watched either for at least a year. Much prefer watching owners that make a few videos about their bikes, and then make no more. Seem more "real" to me, as not chasing monetization or sponsors.

Maybe I'm just old, and mourn the loss of reading something someone took their time, care and consideration as to the end product in what they wrote.

I worked in publishing from 1999 to 2002, the journalists were I worked freely admitted they were rewriting press releases, the people selling advertising space got paid more than the journalists.

I think many of us assume that anyone writing for a bike mag must be a motorcyclist first and foremost. That's simply not true - they'll move from title to title. One editor of (I think) Bike left to edit a magazine about lawnmowers. A buddy of mine got a job at Bike on the back of a law degree and a couple of years working for 'Mother and Baby', I kid you not. Look how many 'staffers' at MCN arrive, write about bike stuff for a few months then get all excited about how they are about to take their CBT or tell us how they trained to pass their bike tests. I remember Emma Franklin doing just that.

Shakey was Da Man

It’s all very well slagging off the bike press but they need an income to survive. They have two main sources of income: the cover price/subscriptions and ad revenues. If they criticise a manufacturer’s product to the point that the manufacturer withdraws their support they’ll need to increase cover price/subscription revenue accordingly - or come up with a different business model like some of the German mags.

To keep things simple, what price would you pay for a magazine that had first rate journalism, interesting content and zero manufacturer influence on bike test reviews? Do you think they would have readership large enough to exist?

I have no idea but it would be interesting to see the answers.

dosruedas wrote: Wed Oct 04, 2023 6:09 pm It’s all very well slagging off the bike press but they need an income to survive. They have two main sources of income: the cover price/subscriptions and ad revenues. If they criticise a manufacturer’s product to the point that the manufacturer withdraws their support they’ll need to increase cover price/subscription revenue accordingly - or come up with a different business model like some of the German mags.

To keep things simple, what price would you pay for a magazine that had first rate journalism, interesting content and zero manufacturer influence on bike test reviews? Do you think they would have readership large enough to exist?

I have no idea but it would be interesting to see the answers.

I think it's slagging off bad journalism. There's a difference.

If you recall Motorcycle Mechanics it had "first rate journalism, interesting content and (not too much) manufacturer influence".

It turned into Performing Berks which had awful journalism, dull content and probably lots of manufacturer influence.

IMO Performance Bikes had its moment and was very good. Especially under Rupert Paul.

I never worked for them but I was in the same office for many years and used to go on the same press launches of new bikes. It was like a rolling international boy's club with unlimited motorbikes, free helicopters and many prostituta.

I remember when one well known journo was attending a Honda event in the Netherlands and went to a sex worker, got a receipt and put it through on expenses as: "testing super blackbird". There was much hilarity and the expenses were signed off.

You couldn't get away with it these days I suspect. It turns out if Russel Brand gets his knob out, some woman tries to make a claim 20 years later. Maybe that's a good thing, I don't know.

That said, PB, in the day, late 80s to mid to late 90s IIRC, was fucking good. Even though that was a time you could piss on a pile of pages and call it a magazine. PB was fucking good. Didn't they invent the track day with their 'Frenzies'?

MyLittleStudPony wrote: Wed Oct 04, 2023 8:47 pm IMO Performance Bikes had its moment and was very good. Especially under Rupert Paul.

That said, PB, in the day, late 80s to mid to late 90s IIRC, was fucking good. Even though that was a time you could piss on a pile of pages and call it a magazine. PB was fucking good. Didn't they invent the track day with their 'Frenzies'?

Yeah, that was the golden era for PB. It was a 'must buy' every month. Superbike mag had its moments, but when Tony Middlehurst was editor it went a bit drag-strip crazy. And John Cutts passing away while at the helm was a bit of a shocker. But they used a fair amount of my photos and trusted me to take off for half a day with a KR1-S on the IoM, so I won't speak ill of them.

For me PB was the magazine that made me realise that certain magazine's were more about the journo's ego than the bike's they were testing & I lost interest in buying bike magazines for a good few years

As a kid I bought Motorcycle Mechanics as it was good.

I've never been a regular buyer of magazines as didn't have anything I wanted.
I bought MCN religiously for 25 years as I yearned the sports results.
When they came online, I stopped buying it.
The missus often brings me a copy from her UK visits,, but never even open the front page now

Superbike in the late 80s was great, it was genuinely funny to read, my Dad used to read my copies because they were enjoyable to read, he had very little interest in motorbikes.

Bike, pre EMAP, was good, afterwards it got dull.

Motorcycle Mechanics was informative, Performing Berks a wasn't as good initially but got better in the 90s.

Did anyone actually buy Which Bike or Motorcycle International?

MyLittleStudPony wrote: Wed Oct 04, 2023 8:47 pm
I remember when one well known journo was attending a Honda event in the Netherlands and went to a sex worker, got a receipt and put it through on expenses as: "testing super blackbird". There was much hilarity and the expenses were signed off.

You couldn't get away with it these days I suspect.

Even in the late 90s EMAP journos could safely approach 17 year old girls in car parks and ask "Pink or Brown?".

I think, in a lot of ways, the future is better than the past

In the early to mid 00's I spent loads of time around the MCN/PB/EMAP thing.

I got to ride lots of different bikes, go on road tests and got free cast off shit that none of the EMAP peeps wanted.

I didn't get to shag any birds tho', well not EMAP groupies anyway.

Oh well. I once bought a copy of Fast Bikes and won a prize to Japan to ride all the factory 500 bikes.
And shagged dozens of sexy burds

Fast Bikes under Colin Schiller (sp?) was fuckin' hilarious. They didn't seem to give a shit. The VHS' were great. The mag content was ok, but the design was terrible. Yellow text on light coloured back grounds, etc.. you couldn't read half of it.

Le_Fromage_Grande wrote: Wed Oct 04, 2023 10:02 pm
Did anyone actually buy ... Motorcycle International?

Yes, but I was never a proper biker.

And I had a subscription to Motorcycle Sport before it became 'and Leisure'

KungFooBob wrote: Wed Oct 04, 2023 10:26 pm Fast Bikes under Colin Schiller (sp?) was fuckin' hilarious. They didn't seem to give a shit. The VHS' were great. The mag content was ok, but the design was terrible. Yellow text on light coloured back grounds, etc.. you couldn't read half of it.

Oh god, I'd forgotten those colour schemes... they told me what not to use when I started designing my own websites

I liked Fast Bikes... it was genuine 'don't give a shit' whilst the 'humour' in PB always seemed so contrived.