Depression

[Yorick]

I suffer from anxiety rather than depression. Doctors explained that I can feel symptoms of depression as they do overlap, but thankfully I don't suffer from it as well. Often feel in a black hole and can't get out. But only lasts a few hours.
I have coping measures to cope with other symptoms of anxiety.
When I'm down I think "I'd rather be a bit poorly here, rather than a bit poorly in Bradford ". Or just go sit in my mancave. Or just take the dog for a walk.
Try to concentrate on the positives.

When I see/hear folk saying "you need to do..." I think they're idiots. Nobody knows what's in your head.
Only way I help is by listening, sharing experiences and talking about coping mechanisms. Don't tell them they are doing it wrong.

Most mornings I walk along the seafront. It always lifts me up.
Today's walk was first for a few days

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[Docca]

Impulsive thoughts about ‘what if’ - edge of a cliff/jumping out of a moving car etc… in psycho babble are referred to as ‘intrusive thoughts’.

Can be once in a blue moon, can be daily. It’s symptomatic of anxiety disorders and there is correlation between severity of anxiety and levels of intrusive thinking.

You’d have seen the stereotypical OCD; if I don’t turn the kettle on 20 times, I’ll come to harm and so on.

The less obvious is often mistakenly associated with depression. You typically won’t act out on these thoughts, but that doesn’t make them any less comfortable. Plus, sometimes people jump.


Don’t jump though. That would suck. Get help and work on the root cause of the anxiety. Easier said than done, but making a start will help.

I wouldn’t recommend the NHS for anything but urgent MH care atm though-so if you can, go private or be prepared for a very long wait.

All the best

( really saddened to read your update, Couch)

[Taipan]

I suffer from anxiety rather than depression. Doctors explained that I can feel symptoms of depression as they do overlap, but thankfully I don't suffer from it as well. Often feel in a black hole and can't get out. But only lasts a few hours.
I have coping measures to cope with other symptoms of anxiety.
When I'm down I think "I'd rather be a bit poorly here, rather than a bit poorly in Bradford ". Or just go sit in my mancave. Or just take the dog for a walk.
Try to concentrate on the positives.

When I see/hear folk saying "you need to do..." I think they're idiots. Nobody knows what's in your head.
Only way I help is by listening, sharing experiences and talking about coping mechanisms. Don't tell them they are doing it wrong.

Most mornings I walk along the seafront. It always lifts me up.
Today's walk was first for a few days

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Don't be too harsh mate. People are often well intentioned, but if they have no experience of your emotions, or mental health issues in general, they can only offer support in the way they think will help. As many have mentioned, a lot of grew up in an era where mental health care consisted off "pull yourself together" and "cheer up it may never happen"!

Both my kids suffer from anxiety and both have been medicated for it. My daughter has been able to deal with it better than my Son, as life has gone on, and is carving out a career for herself. But she works for senior people and often the pressure is on and she really battles her anxiety at times. If she is here working from home I can see the shakes gripping her at times.

My Son is the same but tends to get really moody when he is at his worse. He'll (verbally) lash out at us and we just have to suck it up and let him vent. DOesn't cure anything, but its just the way he goes with his anxiety. He was an outgoing, joking type of kid, life and soul of the party etc. Seeing him so withdrawn and drinking heavily on his own at weekends is not good.

I cant fix it for either of them. As a parent that makes me feel useless, a feeling I hate. Trying to talk to them can often bring about the wrong reaction, but if you don't acknowledge the situation, you feel like you're ignoring them and worry they feel like that. Its very difficult to gauge. This side of the coin isn't a good place to be either, but of course the lesser of the two evils.

[Couchy]

Does anyone have any direct experience of the latest antidepressants?

This won't be a popular view, but for temporary and occasional anxiety (the type where you're ready to burn the whole world down) then I think taking yourself off to the pub, having just the one (I do mean just one), then walking back slowly to reconsider, is the most effective thing ever.

Whilst I can totally agree with the taking yourself off to the pub or something along those lines in the moment the anxiety is taking over it's not that part of the brain that can make that decision that is in control. it's changing this behaviour that is the solution for me and even knowing that it's gonna take a lot of falls and getting up to get there

[weeksy]

I am not going to hijack this thread with a list of my own personal issues but I do not think it is "anxiety" in my case.

To a great extent that's why it's here fella.

I've not got involved in 99% of this as i like to let it run it's course, but i like to think i'm massively influential in Couchy still being with us, we spend a lot of time together and talk a lot on the phone too. Some of our discussions have opened my mind a fair bit into this stuff and i hope i'm a little bit more open minded than i previously have been about 'issues'.


So feel free to post your own stuff, right or wrong, better or worse, this is the place for you to say "I'm not OK..." and go from there.

We as a predominantly blokey forum, rarely talk about problems, issues and things that sometimes need to be talked about.. So if you want to, then go for it.

[Docca]

Does anyone have any direct experience of the latest antidepressants?

I think I am on a path leading nowhere and I strongly suspect this is the only course of action for me now.

I have resisted multiple offers from my GP, they really have no idea who I am. It is no longer a personal service either from the GP or the NHS.

Think it's time I gave these another try so I am genuinely looking for some empirical knowledge.

I think when I first starting posting on Visordown about antidepressant use, I was waving the 'they might only provide some benefit to 30% of the people, 20% of the time'.

Working through your 'path to nowhere' is the key bit. That's a process involving something called 'formulation' and it's more talking and discovering, then adapting- than it is papering over the cracks.


That said, if an antidepressant can help you- then it has the benefit of enabling that clarity of thinking and motivation to think more clearly (if that makes sense).

It's almost impossible to have a 1:1 personal relationship for MH in the NHS because we just don't have the staff, which starts at the front door (the GP). It's been a long time since I considered which antidepressant worked where, but from memory your GP will almost always reach for Citalopram first and advise IAPT services.

My take on that is a bit similar to my experience on having a car recovered from the roadside that quite clearly can't be fixed by the first chap that turns up in the van, instead needs the flatbed. You know that, they know that- but they have to go through process on the off chance. Citalopram is the noddy van, Mirtazepine (for example) would be the flat bed.


If anyone is feeling down/at their lowest ebb/feeling that they might do themselves harm, then there is a free SMS service: Give us a shout. Text: 85258 and someone (a real human) will keep checking in on you to see if you're ok.



For most of what i've read on this thread, I'd personally recommend psychology and not medicine as an investment to make. That will almost certainly mean going private if you want to be seen this side of your lifetime.

[Couchy]

I am not going to hijack this thread with a list of my own personal issues but I do not think it is "anxiety" in my case. It is much more likely to be a clinical depression with some sort of issue relating to a chemical imbalance or faulty mechanism.

When you look at the top five stress risers: employment, financial security, housing, relationship and health, I seem to score a zero on everything. If we were playing depression poker, I'd have a full house and TBH, I don't know how I go this far.

With me it is simply a complete lack of motivation. Nothing gives me any pleasure. I merely exist and my reward for battling through this interminable malaise is I get to go through it all over again tomorrow.

I had hoped that the extraordinary response to Methylprednisolone would lead to some sort of positive treatment but I am told, that drug is not a "treatment" per se. It was merely an intervention to try and stop further brain loss. The side effect of it was magical as I detail in some other post. I was happy, joyful, full of energy and the day simply wasn't long enough. Now I am back to square one being offered a lifetime on some MS drug administered by drip and all that can try and do is stop things getting worse.

So the upshot is this is as good as it gets and yet clearly it is not enough. I hope it is a chemical imbalance, lack of serotonin or dopamine (or both!) and that some antidepressant or other can make up for any deficiency without turning me into a fluffy bunny happy hippy. That's what happened last time I was on Prozac. It even felt "wrong" but I must admit, it was a "happy" time even if it made me dangerously carefree.

Keep posting mate, it's threads like this that help old men like us as we don't talk enough. I've had to learn to talk and still don't as much as I should but I have got help that is working for me. I know all too well someone telling you to do something doesn't always mean you'll listen but today I'm on a level so I'll keep saying it. Chase your GP a bit more, escalate it if needed as they only deal with those that shout the loudest. If needed go and camp on their doorstep and don't move till they help you. The system is fucked and it takes an extreme approach to get through.
But keep doing something, message, post, cry for help, text, call, anything.

[Couchy]

Can I add to what Docca has said, the NHS was all but useless and I had citalopram as the first option, it didn't work and I didn't go back. I tried CBT therapy and that didn't work. There was a couple of other tablets too that didn't work. I'd all but given up but the last episode was serious and a friend found me a local counsellor. Initial meeting with them was to see if we get on, this seems the key and luckily we did. It is private but I was seen within 48hrs and now it's weekly. Mine was found here

https://www.counselling-directory.org.uk/

For my mindset this type of psychotherapy helps as it's basically me talking through the issues and with some prompting me getting a better understanding of them. My brain likes to solve problems and needs to identify things, once I can do that I am happy to work on them. I'm simplifying it a bit and it doesn't sound much but it's been a huge help so far.

[Noggin]

The best thing that happened to me for MH was being offered to see a psychologist in the rehab centre after my second shoulder replacement - the doctors didn't understand why I was so stressed and kept crying, even though I had zero use of my arm after an operation that was supposed to make things better!!

After seeing her for about 3.5 months, once a week, she helped me balance so much stuff from the past (childhood, teen, adulthood) but also helped hugely with things since the bike crash (including the cycle crash!!). And, she spoke English, so it was relatively easy to communicate.

I wish I could go back and see her because she was ace, but it doesn't seem that easy as she's connected to the rehab centre. When I was in a different centre last summer, I asked if I could see the psychologist there as well (really wasn't dealing well with the leg break and the effect of using crutches on my shoulder) - sadly, I didn't gel with this one. Partly because she made me start over again and I had already got myself into a better place. Of course, doing it in French probably made it worse and I ended up coming out of each session stressed and in tears. So I quit as I felt myself getting worse each time.

If I could find one like the first one, I'd try and sort out to see them fairly regularly. But hey ho. I just keep going back to some of the info I got before and it does help a bit.

Everything I was taught/told in my childhood and even young adulthood by family and friends was just "chin up it'll get better" or "pull yourself together dear". And the drugs really didn't work back then!! Luckily I found somewhere to live that helps by just being here. But the absolute best is knowing I now have people I can call or go and see and that really helps - I very rarely feel the need to do either, but knowing they are there makes all the difference



@Yorick @Couchy - wish there was something I could say that would help. I'd offer a space to visit the Alps as a change of scene, but it's currently very cold which isn't positive for most! But, if staying in a teeny apartment (I'm out at work most of the time!) and being around the snow that is coming would help, then shout me. Not everyone's idea of a calming place, but if it helps, please do shout me.

[MrLongbeard]

Been referred to the NHS head shrinkers.
Prior to my first telephone appointment , although to be fair I can't decide if doing it remotely is a good thing or a bad thing, I suppose I can maintain a sliver of dignity, no matter how false, not being in person, any who digression aside, they sent me a mental health questionnaire to complete.

Ahhh well, the appointment isn't for another week, no point stewing over it until it's been chewed over and hashed out, but I foresee some aggro going forward as I'll be buggered six ways till Sunday if they want to foist the standard SSRI's on me again

After speaking to the Trainee Psychological Wellbeing Practitioner for an hour, filling in the questionnaire they'd sent along with some rather uncomfortable questions, my starting point is moderately severe levels of depression and severe levels of anxiety.

Now on a 12 week waiting list for telephone based CBT which by my reckoning will be a waste of time as I'm convinced my headfuckery is seasonal, but GP reckons I should crack on with it and see it I can develop coping strategies, I'm not convinced but seeing as I'm now in the system will see how it plays out.

[Couchy]

Been referred to the NHS head shrinkers.
Prior to my first telephone appointment , although to be fair I can't decide if doing it remotely is a good thing or a bad thing, I suppose I can maintain a sliver of dignity, no matter how false, not being in person, any who digression aside, they sent me a mental health questionnaire to complete.

Ahhh well, the appointment isn't for another week, no point stewing over it until it's been chewed over and hashed out, but I foresee some aggro going forward as I'll be buggered six ways till Sunday if they want to foist the standard SSRI's on me again

After speaking to the Trainee Psychological Wellbeing Practitioner for an hour, filling in the questionnaire they'd sent along with some rather uncomfortable questions, my starting point is moderately severe levels of depression and severe levels of anxiety.

Now on a 12 week waiting list for telephone based CBT which by my reckoning will be a waste of time as I'm convinced my headfuckery is seasonal, but GP reckons I should crack on with it and see it I can develop coping strategies, I'm not convinced but seeing as I'm now in the system will see how it plays out.

Fuck waiting use my link and get help asap. CBT hmmm it does work for some but did nothing for me. 12 weeks is too long to wait tbh

[Yorick]

McAfee fucked me up so they paid for my CBT. Very expensive at the lady's big posh house. Was a nice drive over and an hour chat.
Did bugger all. If I'd been paying I would have stopped.

But it does work for some.

[MrLongbeard]

Fuck waiting use my link and get help asap. CBT hmmm it does work for some but did nothing for me. 12 weeks is too long to wait tbh

If I had the coin I'd consider it, maybe not as seriously as I should, but that's because I'm not convinced about all this touchy feely talky stuff, whilst I'm comfortable in myself to get this stuff out there and discuss it to some degree I still have a very deep undercurrent of 'man up and get on with it' running through me (this is how I see and deal with me, it is not a reflection on how I feel about / see others, I don't want my own attitude about my headspace to put anyone off posting here).

I agree 12 weeks after waiting 4 weeks for the initial assessment is too long, and if I thought I was still as a crisis stage I'd be pulling my finger out, but the nights are drawing out.
I'm doing stuff that I couldn't previously that make me happier, and I'm leaning on my reserves of man up / learn to accept the things you cannot change store and I feel nowhere near as bad as I did, am I storing up problems for later? maybe, but for now it's working, for me, and if it lasts long enough to get me to the top of the waiting list so be it, and we'll see what happens then.

[Couchy]

So today the wife confirmed the marriage is over, me taking too long to get my illness sorted has taken its toll on her. Apparently I’m to leave but there’s no rush while we sort money and details out and I find a house. Still loves and cares for me as a friend which is fair enough and as all rooms are used here we’ll carry on our living/sleeping/eating arrangements.

Ive no idea about all the above it’s too much to take in tonight, counselling tomorrow so that’ll be fun. Dreading being in a house all alone waiting for the days I have my daughter. It’s exactly what I don’t want.

[MrLongbeard]

That's....., well I have no words, stay safe.

[MyLittleStudPony]

Couchy, I'm so sorry to hear that.

I'm not far from you and the door is always open and there's a spare room.

I know everyone is different. I went through something similar a few years back and it was all for the best and turned out well.

You may be like a twig on the shoulders of a mighty stream for a while. But things will sort themselves out. You can't rush it.

[weeksy]

Anyway, vaya con dios Couchy, buy her some flowers, say sorry, really mean it, try to explain what's going on in your head one last time, etc.

Couldn't be more the wrong answer in this circumstance i'm afraid.

[Docca]

All the man up/vikings clinking beer jugs together aside- there is a big difference between counselling and psychology. Different horses for different courses.

Working through expectations ( against perceptions) is part of the process. Pain and trauma isn’t just switched off, either. Then there is the bit about life-long investment in building autonomy (yes, that sounds like an oxymoron).

‘Didn’t understand me’ ‘load of twaddle’ ‘card trick’ ( ) - I think veers dangerously close to stigmatising therapy. It’s all voodoo and dark arts, right? It’s an investment - aside from your money, you’ll need to put a load of thinking in to it. That might not be comfortable for some.

Telephone CBT? Sign of the times. These services also use chatbots now ( to triage). Psychology is more than CBT, too.

The above isn’t meant to be barbed, but the thread was developing a little group think.

[Couchy]

Anyway, vaya con dios Couchy, buy her some flowers, say sorry, really mean it, try to explain what's going on in your head one last time, etc.

Couldn't be more the wrong answer in this circumstance i'm afraid.

It’s fine, the fact people are taking time to comment helps. The content is largely irrelevant. There are some good worlds amongst it all from everyone though.

[Taipan]

Anyway, vaya con dios Couchy, buy her some flowers, say sorry, really mean it, try to explain what's going on in your head one last time, etc.

Couldn't be more the wrong answer in this circumstance i'm afraid.

It’s fine, the fact people are taking time to comment helps. The content is largely irrelevant. There are some good worlds amongst it all from everyone though.

Marriage break ups are horrible and normally much worse for the men. I've seen it take its toll on a few friends, but Like Pony said, you will get through it and come out with a new perspective on things and no one can take being a Dad away from you.

Don't lose sight of yourself. Make time for yourself and fill that time with doing things you like to do and be around positive people that are good to spend time with. Dwelling on it seems to be where people get undone.

Its clear to see on here that you're well liked and have good friends. I wish you well mate.