Training trip to UK

[fdb]

Hello guys
What would you recommend about advanced riding/driving techniques to a spaniard driving school teacher planning a trip to UK?
One or two weeks, with my teapot.
Any advice is wellcome
Thank you!

[Horse]

Could depend on a few things.

That would include what level you're starting from.

Historically, UK training is heavily influenced from police 'advanced'* riding.

* Advanced means higher standards of skill in the USA. Here it means an entire 'style' of riding.

Also, what do you want (or need, or expect) from this?

I'll dig out some YouTube videos of police stuff later, to give you an idea.

Of course, there's our resident maverick trainer @The Spin Doctor, whose training is a tad different.

[edulord]

If you’re already a good driver, UK training will still humble you real quick. It’s all about smoothness, reading the road way ahead, not just handling the car. You'll pick up a lot if you stay open to their style.

[Horse]

Should have said: road stuff is mainly derived from police Roadcraft.

Are you looking for car or bike?

[fdb]

Thank you Horse!
I have been lurking this forum forum for a decade or so and made this acc with spin doctor and you in mind, very happy you are trying to help.
Short story: i have experience with car and motorcycle, maybe something like first class. Spent time on regular basis (weekly/monthly) since 2008 doing motogymkhana exercises.
Spent time reading books and lurking in forums since then also. Been in touch with Mike Waite and got his cd and manual, but sadly had to postergate the trip.
Favourite book might be: the upper half of the motorcycle (inspirational)
The trip would be to be assessed on my driving/riding (and why not, examined) but also to see how other teachers work.
Have to go, but don't wanted you to make an innecessary search for videos.
Feel free to ask, pleasure to respond.
Edulord, thank you for the comment!

[Trinity765]

Familiarise yourself with The System, IPSGA.

Information, Position, Speed, Gear, Accelerate.

https://iampamroadsmart.org.uk/i-p-s-g-a

[Horse]

For more YouTube stuff, search for:

Chris Gilbert, Driving 4 Tomorrow
CG used to run the London Metropolitan police driving school
A couple of demonstration drive videos
Has his own DVDs

Reg Local
Now retired, ex-police instructor (from one of the regional driving schools)
Loads of 'how to' videos on YT
He's an IAM and RoSPA examiner, bikes and cars

For very high standard Roadcraft-based driving, try the 'managers' of:
https://www.high-performance-course.com/

For bikes, there are some 'wild card' trainers, not solely based on Roadcraft. Spin is one, i2i are another.

For track-based training, but with an eye to improving road skills, there's:
https://britishsuperbikeschool.com/

Do you have (car) skid training in Spain? Although car electronics (ABS, ESC, etc) have largely rendered them obsolete, they're still good fun.

A lot of track-based car stuff is really only driving 'experiences', a brief theory overview then a demo lap followed by you driving for a few laps.

I don't know if a car equivalent to BSS.

If you could drive over with your bike on a trailer, you could probably put together a fun fortnight!

[Yorick]

Get yersen to Jerez and I'll show you what's what

[fdb]

Big thank you Horse, very usefull and i''m still considering all pros and cons.
I participated once in a skid training disguised as safety course (public funded). Lot of fun and very good advice, but i'm more into things i can't find outside UK.
High performances courses seems definitely worth the trip, kind of guys with enough experience/knowledge to see drivers flaws only watching him sitting in the car, and also not rigidly constraint to a single book. Would you know anything like that for bikes? I'm not certain about i2i and the BSS.
Once again, a big thank you.

[Horse]

Probably the nearest is Rapid Training

https://www.rapidtraining.co.uk/courses

IIRC it used to be that their instructors were ex-police, with an instructor qualification. The company has been going since the 1990s, operating initially in the Oxfordshire area. However, I heard recently that the original owners have sold the company.

Certainly they appear much more commercial over the last couple of years.

Might be worth dropping them an email summarising what you would like to achieve from time with them. Ask what they could offer.

[fdb]

Hello
Back here because trip is done and it was brilliant. Very few things happenned like planned and i'm happy i didn't insist too much with initial plans, it saved frustrations and gave room for good surprises to happend.
Everytime i try to write about the trip it rapidly escalades to a wall of text, so i preffear to say the least possible unless anybody can find this of interrests and asks.
Only want to add that the imersion was so enjoyable that i miss to be there. Nothing but good words for the people i met, especially for George Chandler (ex Chairman of RoSPA kent drivers). It would be long to explain how much he did, in few words he took up the challenge and tutored me to driver gold pass (and helped to reach silver for rider) in a rush.
Thank you for the help i received here.

[Hot_Air]

driver gold pass (and helped to reach silver for rider)

Congratulations! Those are excellent results.

[Horse]

Please it worked so well

....r good surprises to happend.

Everytime i try to write about the trip it rapidly escalades to a wall of text, so i preffear to say the least possible unless anybody can find this of interrests and asks.

Some of us will

Could you summarise the most important 'new' elements for you?And what will be the main changes in how you ride and drive in future?

And was there anything you found challenging, or disagreed with?

[Skub]

Everytime i try to write about the trip it rapidly escalades to a wall of text, so i preffear to say the least possible unless anybody can find this of interrests and asks.

Like most readers,I'd rather be looking at a wall of text which I can choose to read or not,than nothing at all.

It's a forum,writing stuff makes it work.

[fdb]

It's a forum,writing stuff makes it work.

You are right and thank you for encouragement, it's just i feel it's easier for me this way.

Please it worked so well

Some of us will

Could you summarise the most important 'new' elements for you?And what will be the main changes in how you ride and drive in future?

And was there anything you found challenging, or disagreed with?

Thank you horse, good and difficult questions because i'm not certain about what you meant with new elements.

If that counts, i felt like being slapped in the face once i realized how wrong i was to assume that roads are similar and highway code is a strict comon ground. Adapt and adjust my "roadcraft" to UK (or Kent) context was the real challenge.
Had another surprise when i caught myself looking for drivers in front passenger seats, didn't expect that to be automatized.
So, i spent lot of time making self analysis and "reprograming" , i guess this was the challenge, understand and change.
I forgot to mention the lifesavers during the ride, i wasn't doing them correctly. RoSPA examiner helped to realize how wrong it was, and that sometimes i kept pushing with attention too close in hairiest situations (is that low beam?). Very happy to found out about this.


Will try to answer the rest later, takes me long to find the right words.

[Horse]

Could you summarise the most important 'new' elements for you?And what will be the main changes in how you ride and drive in future?

And was there anything you found challenging, or disagreed with?

Thank you horse, good and difficult questions because i'm not certain about what you meant with new elements.

Anything you were not doing before, either that you found really useful - or really disagreed with*

* Roadcraft-based tests can sometimes feel like you have to 'perform' to pass.

[fdb]

So, biggest change as rider are how to practice moto gymkhana exercises (never low beam again?) and improve life savers (still not consistent on that, for some reason i find them disruptive).
Also, courtesy was outstanding, definitely helped in the process and it's a good thing to implement.
I guess biggest changes will be as instructor. It was very inspiring to be involved as pupil, to receive instruction and to have to relearn. Also, impressed by the way RoSPA works.
Anyway, i want to point out about the context. Hence being disfavourable (language/cultural bareer, stress, mechanical issues etc), there was definitely something in Kent that helped. Can't say exactly if it's the hugge amount of vegetation, the way that people behave, switch to use a foreign positive only language or that i had time to focus on few things (or a sinergy of thoose and other factors). Anyway, there is something special in that place that made the things much easier and smoothened everything.

About the challenges, mention for the high lvl of automatization to adjust, lot of "alarms" constantly ringing (as example with lateral safety distances with bushes or when crossing other road users, not used to expect them to make the drive easier). In that aspect George made an outstanding work that (i guess) hardly could have been done so fast with a bike ( another subject to debate).

Now the hot potato, criticism to the system etc. First of all, i took it as it is without questioning it too much, my goals where others. Also, only been there for few days and didn't have too many chances to discuss about. Can say more but will keep it here, please take no offence.
I found IPSGA a bit rigid
Found the brake gear overlap insufficient
Felt constrained by the pull push method
But obviously, this is nothing in comparison with all i learned and enjoyed, would make it again without any doubt.

Edit: just saw now your response Horse, in my case you right about progress, but i'm happy to make it that way because it made my mistakes more obvious