I despair for current/future generations

[.....]

I read an article announcing that before a performance of Macbeth, there was a theatre warning about the contents of the play containing violence, coercive behaviour, sex and discussion of suicide.
To quote Brian Blessed "it's fucking Shakespeare"
Kids are too busy deciding what gender they want to be this week to actually lift their heads up from their phones to have a look at the real world.

[weeksy]

Kids are too

Some kids.... some. Far far far from all.

Society however has dictated we need to cater for all of them

[Count Steer]

It's effectively a disclaimer. 'This is what's in the play, if you don't want to watch it, go away. Don't even think about trying to squeeze money out of us for the supposed PTSD or a vague sense of discomfort you or your kids got as a result of watching it'.

PS 'If you don't even know what's in Macbeth, what the are you doing here'?

My view is, it's not the youngsters that are the problem.

PPS When we got taken to Notts Playhouse to see it, the witches were wearing diaphanous gowns so they appeared virtually nekkid. Complaints from us youngsters (boys and girls)? You're joking. Banquo's severed head being waved about? Oh yes. Some of our copies of the play had the drunken porter scene expunged (sexual references dontcha know). Our rather excellent teacher made sure we all got proper copies.

He was a rather fine role model was Jack - after we'd done the necessary exams he said 'Right, that's that lot out of the way. Here's a recommended reading list if you want to be properly educated in Eng Lit'. So I used his list over the next few years and for that I thank the man. RIP Sir.

[Mr Moofo]

It's effectively a disclaimer. 'This is what's in the play, if you don't want to watch it, go away. Don't even think about trying to squeeze money out of us for the supposed PTSD or a vague sense of discomfort you or your kids got as a result of watching it'.

PS 'If you don't even know what's in Macbeth, what the are you doing here'?

My view is, it's not the youngsters that are the problem.

PPS When we got taken to Notts Playhouse to see it, the witches were wearing diaphanous gowns so they appeared virtually nekkid. Complaints from us youngsters (boys and girls)? You're joking. Banquo's severed head being waved about? Oh yes. Some of our copies of the play had the drunken porter scene expunged (sexual references dontcha know). Our rather excellent teacher made sure we all got proper copies.

He was a rather fine role model was Jack - after we'd done the necessary exams he said 'Right, that's that lot out of the way. Here's a recommended reading list if you want to be properly educated in Eng Lit'. So I used his list over the next few years and for that I thank the man. RIP Sir.

We went to see Macbeth at the RSC when I was about 14.
Nicol Willaimson starring with Helen Mirren
Dame Helen was is a diaphanous gown going on about damn spots and exposing her tits.
We all thought it was great

[MrLongbeard]

'If you don't even know what's in Macbeth, what the are you doing here'?

Learning what's in it :dunno:
I've heard of it obvs, but never read it, or seen a play or a film.

[Count Steer]

'If you don't even know what's in Macbeth, what the are you doing here'?

Learning what's in it :dunno:
I've heard of it obvs, but never read it, or seen a play or a film.

As an intro, try the post apocalyptic Manga version.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Manga-Shakespe ... 0955285666

[Buckaroo]

I have often thought this. Observing contemporary parenting, as in parent glued to mobile, child glued to iPad, it's little wonder really.

However: there's a small, but growing movement in parenting to return to a more engaged and attentive model.

Both my kids are absolutely opposed to their kids having tablets, TV or other passive forms of engagement. The vast majority of their respective networks are much the same.

I'm hopeful and optimistic for the future, but we've certainly got a long way to go.

[Supermofo]

The thing is about all of this stuff is that most of it isn't the kids fault. Its the adult thought police who have decided kids need more protection which is increasingly leaving them in a bad position in regards to life as it is. Some of it comes from a well meaning place, but a lot of it appears to be doing as much harm as good, leaving kids ill equipped for adulthood.

My mum went on a massive 'Youth of today' rant when we went away for the weekend in the summer. I let it go for a while until I couldn't help but bite. My 11 and 14 year olds aren't responsible for much of what older generations have a problem with, they didn't shape their environment and boundaries/rules they have. All of us adults on here did. I pointed out that my mums generation is arguably far more responsible for how my kids are growing up than the kids themselves, the slippery slope started started a long time before now, kids are a product of what's been decided for them.

[Mr Moofo]

The thing is about all of this stuff is that most of it isn't the kids fault. Its the adult thought police who have decided kids need more protection which is increasingly leaving them in a bad position in regards to life as it is. Some of it comes from a well meaning place, but a lot of it appears to be doing as much harm as good, leaving kids ill equipped for adulthood.

My mum went on a massive 'Youth of today' rant when we went away for the weekend in the summer. I let it go for a while until I couldn't help but bite. My 11 and 14 year olds aren't responsible for much of what older generations have a problem with, they didn't shape their environment and boundaries/rules they have. All of us adults on here did. I pointed out that my mums generation is arguably far more responsible for how my kids are growing up than the kids themselves, the slippery slope started started a long time before now, kids are a product of what's been decided for them.

It is the last two generations of parents who seem to have let the standards of child rearing slip. I remember arguing on Singletrack World with some entitle parent who though schools were responsible for teaching his kids discipline, manners and values .
The timeline seems to follow the introduction of mobile phones
You bring them into the world, you are resposible for making them of value to this world. This involves talking to them, engaging with them, teaching them values and standards. And yes, you should know where they are if they are not at home - because it is your legal duty. You didn't have to have them. Most parents are extremely good at being lost in their phones - where Tik Tok or Insta are way more important than their precious little darlings. If challenged about little Chanc'e behaviour, you get the roll eye and "what am I meant to do?"
Oddly, from perosnal experience with my step grandkids, the kids are amazingly effective at whining about everything and then sulking/ throwing a fit/trying again 3 seconds later at amuch higher volume. I can understand why it is wearing. But a firm "no" and following through works wonders.
I am sure that there are many kids being brought up well, and will contribute to society in a meanful way - but, by christ the % is dropping quickly, as the ferral, foul mouthed, entitled and violent ones take over. And their parents. And their parents

[Tomcat]

In ye olde days women knew their place and it was at home. They catered, cleaned and brought up the kids while dad went off to work (to a job that paid enough for the whole family to live on). Today it's a fair bet that parents will either be single or both working. They will come home tired after work, to a house that's draining their money, to pick up the kids from the childminder on godknowswhat/hour and have to prepare food while getting the kids ready for bed. Homework apparently isn't a thing any more so if they're old enough the kids will sit in front of the TV until then. If the parents have time to read to the kids before bed that's a plus, but of course they grow out of that. It used to be so much better, or did it?

“Our youth now love luxury, they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders, and they love to chatter instead of exercise. Children are now tyrants not servants of their household. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up their food and tyrannise their teachers.”

Attributed to Socrates, over 2,400 years ago.

[Taipan]

It all started many years ago when people started getting offended on other peoples behalf. Things like changing the name of a blackboard to a chalk board. FF to today and at the school where my wife's works, they aren't allowed to say No to kids, they have to ask if they think they're making the right choices! This is in reception years. No rules, no boundaries, just engagement and hopeful redirection. So more and more disruptive kids as they work their way upwards through the school system, as they know their behaviour goes pretty much unchallenged. Nicely prepared young adults soon to be coming to a workplace near you!

[gremlin]

I have often thought this. Observing contemporary parenting, as in parent glued to mobile, child glued to iPad, it's little wonder really.

I saw a young lady pushing a buggy with an iPad holder attached and an iPad playing cartoons to the kid of about one-year old.

I mean, speaking to your kids, engaging with them, teaching them stuff as you go along, etc...well, it's overrated, innit.

[MyLittleStudPony]

I read an article announcing that before a performance of Macbeth, there was a theatre warning about the contents of the play containing violence, coercive behaviour, sex and discussion of suicide.
To quote Brian Blessed "it's fucking Shakespeare"


Kids are too busy deciding what gender they want to be this week to actually lift their heads up from their phones to have a look at the real world.

I don't really see how those two statements are related.

Also the second one seems very much like an incorrect opinion. And a bit fear zoner / hate speachy.



And let's not forget who put the plastic in the sea*. The Toxic Elderly!

*And by this I really mean profited from decades of environmentally, socially and economically unsustainable practices.

[.....]

Last child (9yo) i looked after (8 days) went home knowing how to set the table, what please and thank-you were, empty a dishwasher, what the inside of police cell looked like and how to ride a manual motorbike (DT100)
His parents wanted to know what I'd done to turn him into a moderately acceptable human being.
I'm god Father to one of his kids now!

[Supermofo]

Last child (9yo) i looked after (8 days) went home knowing how to set the table, what please and thank-you were, empty a dishwasher, what the inside of police cell looked like and how to ride a manual motorbike (DT100)
His parents wanted to know what I'd done to turn him into a moderately acceptable human being.
I'm god Father to one of his kids now!

That just sounds like they weren't teaching their children correctly. Mine both have phones for example but they definitely know the consequences of getting them out when we go out as a family or not saying please/thank you, putting things in the dishwasher after tea etc.

[.....]

I read an article announcing that before a performance of Macbeth, there was a theatre warning about the contents of the play containing violence, coercive behaviour, sex and discussion of suicide.
To quote Brian Blessed "it's fucking Shakespeare"


Kids are too busy deciding what gender they want to be this week to actually lift their heads up from their phones to have a look at the real world.

I don't really see how those two statements are related.

Also the second one seems very much like an incorrect opinion. And a bit fear zoner / hate speachy.

Teachers are being fired/suspended for using the wrong 'pronoun'
My opinion offends 'you', well tough titties. Get used to people not pandering to 'you'
46 years ago this was satire, now its reality. If 'you' want to identify as a blue bisexual houseplant, your choice, but don't expect me to go along with your delusion

[Saga Lout]

I read an article announcing that before a performance of Macbeth, there was a theatre warning about the contents of the play containing violence, coercive behaviour, sex and discussion of suicide.
To quote Brian Blessed "it's fucking Shakespeare"


Kids are too busy deciding what gender they want to be this week to actually lift their heads up from their phones to have a look at the real world.

I don't really see how those two statements are related.

Also the second one seems very much like an incorrect opinion. And a bit fear zoner / hate speachy.

I read this far and thought "Hang on, isn't this the idiot who constantly talks hatefully about the toxic elderly?"

And let's not forget who put the plastic in the sea*. The Toxic Elderly!

Oh yes. Yes it is.

[Count Steer]

Last child (9yo) i looked after (8 days) went home knowing how to set the table, what please and thank-you were, empty a dishwasher, what the inside of police cell looked like and how to ride a manual motorbike (DT100)
His parents wanted to know what I'd done to turn him into a moderately acceptable human being.
I'm god Father to one of his kids now!

There's a nice shortish article by Poppy Pearce in The Spectator this week on the comparison of being an au pair in Paris in 2022 and then back in London. (p24 of 18th October issue if anyone wants to browse on the shelf I think you can read on-line if you can cope with/deal with cookies).

Clearly we're dealing with families that can afford an au pair but the difference is stark. French kids - an after-school treat, turn their noses up at crisps and want to go get a baguette. Main meal, eaten en famille, four year old proudly folds napkins, 2 year old proudly carries laundry basket. Brisk discipline - 'Ça suffit!', 'Arrêt!' and 'dépêche-toi!' all feature. Nanny expected to be an extension of parental regime not just an 'outsourced parent'.

London - living rooms resembling Early Learning Centres, parents and children eating at different times etc etc etc.

The article refers to a book 'French Children Don't Throw Food' by Pamela Drucker. Should make interesting reading.

[MrLongbeard]

'If you don't even know what's in Macbeth, what the are you doing here'?

Learning what's in it :dunno:
I've heard of it obvs, but never read it, or seen a play or a film.

As an intro, try the post apocalyptic Manga version.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Manga-Shakespe ... 0955285666

Thanks, I've made it 52 years without the bard in my life, I reckon I can see out the last 30 without him too.

[Count Steer]

Learning what's in it :dunno:
I've heard of it obvs, but never read it, or seen a play or a film.

As an intro, try the post apocalyptic Manga version.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Manga-Shakespe ... 0955285666

Thanks, I've made it 52 years without the bard in my life, I reckon I can see out the last 30 without him too.

Well, if you've watched Sons of Anarchy or The Lion King, you've been exposed to Hamlet.