I despair for current/future generations

[MrLongbeard]

if you've watched Sons of Anarchy

Sons of Anarchy
It didn't get any better second time around

maybe it didn't translate well from the original Klingon before being applied to a biker gang

[Sunny]

I read an article announcing that before a performance of Macbeth, there was a theatre warning about the contents of the play containing violence, coercive behaviour, sex and discussion of suicide.
To quote Brian Blessed "it's fucking Shakespeare"


Kids are too busy deciding what gender they want to be this week to actually lift their heads up from their phones to have a look at the real world.

I don't really see how those two statements are related.

Also the second one seems very much like an incorrect opinion. And a bit fear zoner / hate speachy.

Teachers are being fired/suspended for using the wrong 'pronoun'
My opinion offends 'you', well tough titties. Get used to people not pandering to 'you'
46 years ago this was satire, now its reality. If 'you' want to identify as a blue bisexual houseplant, your choice, but don't expect me to go along with your delusion

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[Saga Lout]

That's all very well but it becomes my business when they insist I have to believe their delusion.

[Sunny]

That's all very well but it becomes my business when they insist I have to believe their delusion.

Queues of non-binary etc folk outside your house are there? 'Insisting' you give them attention? Bollocks. Makes zero difference to my life or yours.

[Rockburner]

That's all very well but it becomes my business when they insist I have to believe their delusion.

The only thing you are being asked to do is treat them with a modicum of respect.

Is that really too difficult?

[Count Steer]

That's all very well but it becomes my business when they insist I have to believe their delusion.

The only thing you are being asked to do is treat them with a modicum of respect.

Is that really too difficult?

The number of times I've encountered the 'preferred pronoun' situation? Nil, zip, nada, a big fat zero*. A lot of people that are getting 'proxy agitated' about what they read rather than anything that actually affects them.

* Possible exception - A coffee shop in Guildford has a blackboard with mini-profiles of the staff - favourite drink, music, unusual skill etc - they're all young, exotic types with some quite startling hair colours, nose piercings etc (Chichester one appears to be staffed accordingly but no board iirc).

On the board it also has preferred pronoun. So far they've all been 'he' and 'she' exactly as you'd expect from a brief observation.

[Taipan]

We have preferred pro nouns as part of your email sig. Its not compulsory though and take up is surprisingly low. I think where it gets awkward for people, and can affect peoples lives, is when adjustments are made, which can be budgetary.

The wider concerns, are things like men in women's changing rooms of course. But then my (gay) colleague was telling me his tranny friend looks more like a woman than a lot of women do, and has less trouble using a womens toilet than if s/he uses the mens!

My kids are grown up so I suppose none of this is unlikely to affect me, but as a Father of a girl, would I be happy with men in places like the gym/swimming pool changing rooms? No, I wouldn't be. Shop changing rooms, less so.

[Rockburner]

That's all very well but it becomes my business when they insist I have to believe their delusion.

The only thing you are being asked to do is treat them with a modicum of respect.

Is that really too difficult?

The number of times I've encountered the 'preferred pronoun' situation? Nil, zip, nada, a big fat zero*. A lot of people that are getting 'proxy agitated' about what they read rather than anything that actually affects them.

* Possible exception - A coffee shop in Guildford has a blackboard with mini-profiles of the staff - favourite drink, music, unusual skill etc - they're all young, exotic types with some quite startling hair colours, nose piercings etc (Chichester one appears to be staffed accordingly but no board iirc).

On the board it also has preferred pronoun. So far they've all been 'he' and 'she' exactly as you'd expect from a brief observation.

Similar here. I have seen things like this, but it hasn't affected my life, way of life, income, tax status, house price or anything else one iota. My teenage nieces are somewhat sensitive about modern trends* (as you'd expect), but it hasn't changed the way we interact at all, I don't need to be more sensitive or "think about how I treat them differently" because they always get (got?) treated with respect from the outset and always will do.



* Their horror at my Mum's desire for a "Wild West" themed 80th birthday party was actually quite funny, (and the nieces are intelligent enough to understand the humour that us elders saw in that), and the hilarity was only compounded by their father's utterly "insensitive" dressing up in MAGA gear later in the evening.

[Rockburner]

My kids are grown up so I suppose none of this is unlikely to affect me, but as a Father of a girl, would I be happy with men in places like the gym/swimming pool changing rooms? No, I wouldn't be. Shop changing rooms, less so.

You've obviously never used a unisex changing room like the vast majority of public spas, pools, holiday parks etc have in Europe then. It's normal.

The only reason you feel you have something to fear is the scaremongering that is published by news-media who are desperate for advertising sales and so shout loudly in headlines and clickbait links about controversial subjects.

[Count Steer]

* Their horror at my Mum's desire for a "Wild West" themed 80th birthday party was actually quite funny, (and the nieces are intelligent enough to understand the humour that us elders saw in that), and the hilarity was only compounded by their father's utterly "insensitive" dressing up in MAGA gear later in the evening.

Sort of reminds me of something I read in a book (can't for the life of me remember which book).

Polish (iirc) refugee in the USA being told about a Halloween party - 'you have to come as something really, really evil/scary'. Turns up as Adolf Hitler. Gets beaten up!

[Mike1976]

Queues of non-binary etc folk outside your house are there? 'Insisting' you give them attention? Bollocks. Makes zero difference to my life or yours.

But why?

After 10 thousand years of human civilisation, why do you think we are suddenly being compelled to accept the new "normal". Gender confusion, race baiting, diversity or DEI , multiculturalism, mass migration. All these things are suddenly being forced upon a society which, despite raucous and often violent insistence from the vocal minority, is nothing the vast majority in the developed western world have asked for.

I'll be interested to know, if it wasn't for the complicity of the mainstream media, how anyone would feel strongly one way or the other if, as you suggest, these political hot potatoes have "no effect on me"....

[Taipan]

My kids are grown up so I suppose none of this is unlikely to affect me, but as a Father of a girl, would I be happy with men in places like the gym/swimming pool changing rooms? No, I wouldn't be. Shop changing rooms, less so.

You've obviously never used a unisex changing room like the vast majority of public spas, pools, holiday parks etc have in Europe then. It's normal.

The only reason you feel you have something to fear is the scaremongering that is published by news-media who are desperate for advertising sales and so shout loudly in headlines and clickbait links about controversial subjects.

You're probably right but its how i was brought up and i have no real wish to change. My wife used to hate taking our daughter to the French toilets with men at the urinals, but i guess we got used to it after a few weeks?

No idea why you took a sensible reply and the appended it with your statement of why I feel that way is based on the news-media. It isn't. Its from a fathers protective point of view. No matter the intention of men in womens changing rooms, I don't want men looking at my naked daughter, or her being embarrassed by their being in there.

[Count Steer]

My kids are grown up so I suppose none of this is unlikely to affect me, but as a Father of a girl, would I be happy with men in places like the gym/swimming pool changing rooms? No, I wouldn't be. Shop changing rooms, less so.

You've obviously never used a unisex changing room like the vast majority of public spas, pools, holiday parks etc have in Europe then. It's normal.

The only reason you feel you have something to fear is the scaremongering that is published by news-media who are desperate for advertising sales and so shout loudly in headlines and clickbait links about controversial subjects.

In Europe? All 3 of my local swimming pools have unisex changing areas with cubicles. There are communal showers + 2 or 3 shower cubicles. (The local golf/country club - pool, gym etc - still has M/F changing rooms).

[Saga Lout]

That's all very well but it becomes my business when they insist I have to believe their delusion.

The only thing you are being asked to do is treat them with a modicum of respect.

Is that really too difficult?

And I will treat people with the respect they deserve.

But let's not forget, Jordan Peterson was reprimanded and ordered by his professional body to undergo social media training under the risk of losing his professional license for protesting about Canada's Bill C16 which could be used e.g. to compel citizens to use the terms ‘ze’ and ‘zir’, instead of ‘he’ and ‘she’.

If it can happen in Canada, it can happen here. If not exactly that, then some other insanity will become fashionable and we'll be asked, then mandated to comply.

[Rockburner]

My kids are grown up so I suppose none of this is unlikely to affect me, but as a Father of a girl, would I be happy with men in places like the gym/swimming pool changing rooms? No, I wouldn't be. Shop changing rooms, less so.

You've obviously never used a unisex changing room like the vast majority of public spas, pools, holiday parks etc have in Europe then. It's normal.

The only reason you feel you have something to fear is the scaremongering that is published by news-media who are desperate for advertising sales and so shout loudly in headlines and clickbait links about controversial subjects.

You're probably right but its how i was brought up and i have no real wish to change. My wife used to hate taking our daughter to the French toilets with men at the urinals, but i guess we got used to it after a few weeks?

Fear of the unkown? As you say - once you get used to it, it's much less of a problem ?

No idea why you took a sensible reply and the appended it with your statement of why I feel that way is based on the news-media. It isn't. Its from a fathers protective point of view. No matter the intention of men in womens changing rooms, I don't want men looking at my naked daughter, or her being embarrassed by their being in there.

A generalisation, I'll admit.

[Rockburner]

That's all very well but it becomes my business when they insist I have to believe their delusion.

The only thing you are being asked to do is treat them with a modicum of respect.

Is that really too difficult?

And I will treat people with the respect they deserve.

But let's not forget, Jordan Peterson was reprimanded and ordered by his professional body to undergo social media training under the risk of losing his professional license for protesting about Canada's Bill C16 which could be used e.g. to compel citizens to use the terms ‘ze’ and ‘zir’, instead of ‘he’ and ‘she’.

If it can happen in Canada, it can happen here. If not exactly that, then some other insanity will become fashionable and we'll be asked, then mandated to comply.

I'm assuming that you have no problem with "Miss" as an honorific for younger, unmarried people of the female persuasion?

That's only been around a few hundred years (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miss), we (society) got used to that pretty quickly.

We often have to acknowledge that language (especially the english language) is fluid and not fixed in stone, so we have to admit that things change, it's the way of societies all over the world.

[Sunny]

The wider concerns, are things like men in women's changing rooms of course. But then my (gay) colleague was telling me his tranny friend looks more like a woman than a lot of women do, and has less trouble using a womens toilet than if s/he uses the mens!

I suspect that trans women would be more at risk using men's facilities than women would be from them using women's facilities.

My kids are grown up so I suppose none of this is unlikely to affect me, but as a Father of a girl, would I be happy with men in places like the gym/swimming pool changing rooms? No, I wouldn't be. Shop changing rooms, less so.

Trans women are welcome in any changing room I (female for those not aware) use.

And as has been said by others, unisex changing rooms are quite common, and don't concern me in the slightest.

[Sunny]

Queues of non-binary etc folk outside your house are there? 'Insisting' you give them attention? Bollocks. Makes zero difference to my life or yours.

But why?

After 10 thousand years of human civilisation, why do you think we are suddenly being compelled to accept the new "normal". Gender confusion, race baiting, diversity or DEI , multiculturalism, mass migration. All these things are suddenly being forced upon a society which, despite raucous and often violent insistence from the vocal minority, is nothing the vast majority in the developed western world have asked for.

I'll be interested to know, if it wasn't for the complicity of the mainstream media, how anyone would feel strongly one way or the other if, as you suggest, these political hot potatoes have "no effect on me"....

Things change. Its not new, it's just acceptance/acknowledgement of it that's new.

Same with gay people and gay rights. They didn't just pop into being in the 60s.

[Saga Lout]

The only thing you are being asked to do is treat them with a modicum of respect.

Is that really too difficult?

And I will treat people with the respect they deserve.

But let's not forget, Jordan Peterson was reprimanded and ordered by his professional body to undergo social media training under the risk of losing his professional license for protesting about Canada's Bill C16 which could be used e.g. to compel citizens to use the terms ‘ze’ and ‘zir’, instead of ‘he’ and ‘she’.

If it can happen in Canada, it can happen here. If not exactly that, then some other insanity will become fashionable and we'll be asked, then mandated to comply.

I'm assuming that you have no problem with "Miss" as an honorific for younger, unmarried people of the female persuasion?

WTF is "people of the female persuasion". People aren't persuaded to be female, they either are or they aren't

That's only been around a few hundred years (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miss), we (society) got used to that pretty quickly.

And it wasn't mandated. There was no law insisting that we use the new word (or the new meaning of the old word). People found it useful so they used it.

[JackyJoll]

I suspect that trans women would be more at risk using men's facilities than women would be from them using women's facilities..

So, men who pretend to be women are imposing themselves on the ladies’ facilities, to avoid male aggression.

I think there’s an irony there.