Would you have an electric car if you had the money for a new car and were in the market for one?

[Taipan]

Yeah, the smugness on the Tesla pages seems to be in a marked decline!

[Mussels]

I was watching a marketing exec giving a lecture and he used range anxiety as a marketing example saying the car companies were all doing it wrong, the guy was a moron and way off the mark* but it made me consider what range anxiety is.
It's a term created by EV marketers to mask the real issue - recharging anxiety. I don't care that much if the range is 200 miles, I do care that if I'm lucky and find a working charger it will add a lot more time to an already long journey.

*He started by confirming that no EV owner in the theatre had range anxiety. His solution was to have no granularity between 80% and 100% on the battery meter, he forgot that the only people who will see it are those who have already bought one.

[Saga Lout]

I was watching a marketing exec giving a lecture and he used range anxiety as a marketing example saying the car companies were all doing it wrong, the guy was a moron and way off the mark* but it made me consider what range anxiety is.
It's a term created by EV marketers to mask the real issue - recharging anxiety. I don't care that much if the range is 200 miles, I do care that if I'm lucky and find a working charger it will add a lot more time to an already long journey...

He's right. I've had a couple of petrol vehicles with less range than the average EV. The Suzuki Cappuccino would do about 250 miles from full to empty, the Honda Deauville would do about 200 miles. I had no qualms doing long journeys because it'd only take 5 minutes or so to get from empty to full. Having to hang around for half an hour or an hour is a pain I can do without.

[Nordboy]

So this charging thing, about spending ages at a charger etc. This is my take after having our EV for a while.

99% of the time, I can wake up with a full battery of charge, absolutely no waiting time at all.

The 1% of longer journeys I do, for example from S Wales to Exeter. I will have a full battery to start, I then stop in Exeter for 20 mins to top up, I could probably get away 10, but 20 mins is fine. this gives me more than enough charge to get home.

I do this maybe once every 6-8 wks. 20 mins every 6-8 wks. meanwhile everyone who drives an ICE car (I include myself in that) has had to stop 2-3, maybe more time, 5 mins each time to fill with fuel.

So the time is the same or very similar, the charging time is irrelevant imo, all works out about the same, it's just that ours comes in one go rather than spread out over a period of time. If I didn't do any long journeys, I would NEVER have to wait for charge.

[Taff]

My eyes were opened a few months ago when I did a 350 miles each way trip in a polestar.
We needed to stop at about the 200 mile point each way and after approx 4. Hours I needed a leg stretch and a bite to eat anyway, so the 20 mins plugged into the charger made absolutely zero difference to the journey.

The car's Google maps did the journey planning and took us to the chargers so there was no fuss at all.

9 weeks to go until the i4 arrives

[KungFooBob]

I've had my i4 almost four months, the longest trip was an airport run, 125 mile round trip. I've not used any public charging yet, so never had to wait the 20mins for it to charge.

I reckon my car has around 260 miles real world range, I could probably count on one hand the number of journeys I will need to make in a year longer than that.

If I was doing 300 miles a day I'd pick a different car, but I don't so I won't.

[Taipan]

IME range anxiety is experienced more by non EV owners!

I bought my Tesla knowing i'd probably never do a journey where I'd need to use a public charger, but if it did it'd mean I'd be going over 200 miles. Theres no way I'd ever do 200 miles without stopping for a bevvy break and most likely use the toilet too. If I had to queue it'd be a one off, so probably not bother me that much. As it stands, I dont even have a dedicated home charger and am easily surving one a "granny" charger which simply plugs into a 3 pin plug like a optimate etc.

Being on a Tesla page, its clear that even for for the many Tesla company car owners, range is not an issue. Destination into satnav and off they go and the cars software factors in chargers and even changes the intended charging stations if the car has usd more battery than predicted or the charging stations are full/ busy. It also pre conditions the battery for a quicker charge.

I do note a lot of them often dont stop for a full charge and will make do with a 10-ish minute charge and fully charge at destination or when back home etc. Most people home charge, and like me, never, or rarely even go to a public charger. But, the benefits are enough that even people with no possibility of home charger are still happy enough to be an EV owner and use public chargers, and that bit has surprised me!

[weeksy]

The range thing is a massive concern, but some places are helping that now.

For example the E-Transit is about a 200 maybe 250 mile van... Which for me CAN be a massive issue. If i'm going to a race i'll go from house to a field and then back... Often with 0 chance of seeing or passing a charging spot in a viable location. But some places are now coming around to it like Cwmcarn, that's a little forest walking/riding place, but have stuck in 6-8 spots for e-charging, which is honestly a massive thing. Some of these things will change when we move house as the 250 round trip would be viable when we're there anyway.

Thing is, i don't have anything at all against an electric vehicle, i just don't give a toss either way. If it can do what i need/want, i'll drive whatever... As long as it carries me and bikes to locations, it could run on cow-shit for all i care.

Fort William multiple times a year though, that would get a bit tiresome.

[Docca]

range isn't an issue for me so long as I remember to charge at home. It's brass monkeys atm so range is 280 ish. Which will last me all week

I agree with hatstand: range anxiety seems to be a bigger issue for non-ev owners. I have had to recently stop at the services and charge- but I was with my wife, we had a coffee and a loo break and then on our way again.

I was in remotest west Wales last year and they had EV charge points in the middle of nowhere/coast etc.

I also went out in the 9mpg landy at the weekend, so erm, yeah- environment or something

[Rockburner]

range isn't an issue for me so long as I remember to charge at home. It's brass monkeys atm so range is 280 ish. Which will last me all week

I agree with hatstand: range anxiety seems to be a bigger issue for non-ev owners. I have had to recently stop at the services and charge- but I was with my wife, we had a coffee and a loo break and then on our way again.

I was in remotest west Wales last year and they had EV charge points in the middle of nowhere/coast etc.

I also went out in the 9mpg landy at the weekend, so erm, yeah- environment or something

Question for the longer-distance drivers about the queueing aspect:

If you do have to queue at (say) a motorway service station, what's the actual process?
I assume you don't just "stop and wait" right behind the charger slots blocking anyone else from getting past: so, do you find a regular spot, then sit in the car until a charging spot clears? What if that takes 30 minutes? (perfectly possible if X evs all happen to pull in together and grab all the slots within a 2 minute window)
How do you claim that "I'm next!"?
ie: how do you prevent another ev user from turning up with impeccable timing and pulling straight into a freshly emptied slot, thus: "queue-jumping"? Would this sort of action cause any aggro?
If a car is in the slot, but has fully charged, is the expectation that the owner would return and move it, even if they're not ready to continue their journey? (even if it's pissing down!)


I'm really only asking for clarity really because I'm not (and am highly unlikely to be) in the position to buy an EV for the foreseeable future. The last car I bought cost me 4 grand and will likely last me another 10 years at least: it was the most expensive car I've ever bought, and I can't see myself spending any more than that, so I'm not in the ev market at all, but I'm intrigued by the whole queue-ing procedure.

[Taff]

The in car apps know how many of the charger points are in use, so I think it's more likely that the sat nav will redirect you to a charge point that is free.

[Couchy]

Several months in with the leaf and it’s 150 mile range and we’ve charged once at a public charger, I stayed 8 minutes and got enough to complete the journey. Rest of the time it’s on the granny charger for 7 hours every night. Average for last 3500 miles has been 4miles/kw. Gonna have to put a dedicated charge point in now as for mtb and work duties I’ve bought an ID buzz, the leaf will stay on the granny charger and both will be charged during the cheap tariff.it does seem non EV owners assume when you stop to charge you stop till it’s 100% full where the reality seems to be you stay just long enough to get home.

[Couchy]

The range thing is a massive concern, but some places are helping that now.

For example the E-Transit is about a 200 maybe 250 mile van... Which for me CAN be a massive issue. If i'm going to a race i'll go from house to a field and then back... Often with 0 chance of seeing or passing a charging spot in a viable location. But some places are now coming around to it like Cwmcarn, that's a little forest walking/riding place, but have stuck in 6-8 spots for e-charging, which is honestly a massive thing. Some of these things will change when we move house as the 250 round trip would be viable when we're there anyway.

Thing is, i don't have anything at all against an electric vehicle, i just don't give a toss either way. If it can do what i need/want, i'll drive whatever... As long as it carries me and bikes to locations, it could run on cow-shit for all i care.

Fort William multiple times a year though, that would get a bit tiresome.

Your use is a bit extreme though, the ones at cwmcarn look like 7kw chargers so unless you’re there several hours not much use. But there’s quite a few DC chargers around the area. 15mins at a DC can get 40-60 miles extra range, Fort William well you’re stopping every 2 1/2 hours

[weeksy]

The range thing is a massive concern, but some places are helping that now.

For example the E-Transit is about a 200 maybe 250 mile van... Which for me CAN be a massive issue. If i'm going to a race i'll go from house to a field and then back... Often with 0 chance of seeing or passing a charging spot in a viable location. But some places are now coming around to it like Cwmcarn, that's a little forest walking/riding place, but have stuck in 6-8 spots for e-charging, which is honestly a massive thing. Some of these things will change when we move house as the 250 round trip would be viable when we're there anyway.

Thing is, i don't have anything at all against an electric vehicle, i just don't give a toss either way. If it can do what i need/want, i'll drive whatever... As long as it carries me and bikes to locations, it could run on cow-shit for all i care.

Fort William multiple times a year though, that would get a bit tiresome.

Your use is a bit extreme though, the ones at cwmcarn look like 7kw chargers so unless you’re there several hours not much use. But there’s quite a few DC chargers around the area. 15mins at a DC can get 40-60 miles extra range, Fort William well you’re stopping every 2 1/2 hours

Well Cwmcarn we would arguably be there at least 4 hours and it's only 120 miles from home so would arguably do perfectly well.

As you say, Fort William would be more complex. It's trips like Dyfi though that would be worse for us. That's basically at the edge of range for a non-stop up there... buy then you've got to get back. Which means stopping not far from Dyfi and waiting for an hour or so to head home.. Which is honestly a bit of a pain in the arse IMO.

[Taipan]

range isn't an issue for me so long as I remember to charge at home. It's brass monkeys atm so range is 280 ish. Which will last me all week

I agree with hatstand: range anxiety seems to be a bigger issue for non-ev owners. I have had to recently stop at the services and charge- but I was with my wife, we had a coffee and a loo break and then on our way again.

I was in remotest west Wales last year and they had EV charge points in the middle of nowhere/coast etc.

I also went out in the 9mpg landy at the weekend, so erm, yeah- environment or something

Question for the longer-distance drivers about the queueing aspect:

If you do have to queue at (say) a motorway service station, what's the actual process?
I assume you don't just "stop and wait" right behind the charger slots blocking anyone else from getting past: so, do you find a regular spot, then sit in the car until a charging spot clears? What if that takes 30 minutes? (perfectly possible if X evs all happen to pull in together and grab all the slots within a 2 minute window)
How do you claim that "I'm next!"?
ie: how do you prevent another ev user from turning up with impeccable timing and pulling straight into a freshly emptied slot, thus: "queue-jumping"? Would this sort of action cause any aggro?
If a car is in the slot, but has fully charged, is the expectation that the owner would return and move it, even if they're not ready to continue their journey? (even if it's pissing down!)


I'm really only asking for clarity really because I'm not (and am highly unlikely to be) in the position to buy an EV for the foreseeable future. The last car I bought cost me 4 grand and will likely last me another 10 years at least: it was the most expensive car I've ever bought, and I can't see myself spending any more than that, so I'm not in the ev market at all, but I'm intrigued by the whole queue-ing procedure.

As Taff says, the app knows if a charge station is full occupied and will divert you elsewhere. There isnt really a shortage of charging stations now, even here in the UK. When I went through France about 4-5 years ago the queues on the motorways for charge points was crazy, but that has long since been addressed. Quite a few people say charging abroad is even easier and much cheaper and EV users are more than happy to go on Euro trips. Like I say, the range issue is really something that non EV owners worry and talk about.

[ZRX61]

I agree with hatstand: range anxiety seems to be a bigger issue for non-ev owners. I have had to recently stop at the services and charge- but I was with my wife, we had a coffee and a loo break and then on our way again.

I can leave home here in LA with a full tank & would only have to stop for fuel 5 times between here & Miami, 2700 miles away. Plus it would only take about 40 hours. Add another hour for total time spent fueling. No range issues or worries.
How long would you be charging for 2700 miles & how many stops?

[ZRX61]

LOL!!!

Waymo1.jpg (44.36 KiB) Viewed 1270 times

[Taff]

I agree with hatstand: range anxiety seems to be a bigger issue for non-ev owners. I have had to recently stop at the services and charge- but I was with my wife, we had a coffee and a loo break and then on our way again.

I can leave home here in LA with a full tank & would only have to stop for fuel 5 times between here & Miami, 2700 miles away. Plus it would only take about 40 hours. Add another hour for total time spent fueling. No range issues or worries.
How long would you be charging for 2700 miles & how many stops?

it's much easier and quicker to fly that distance, why would you even contemplate driving?

[Slenver]

I agree with hatstand: range anxiety seems to be a bigger issue for non-ev owners. I have had to recently stop at the services and charge- but I was with my wife, we had a coffee and a loo break and then on our way again.

I can leave home here in LA with a full tank & would only have to stop for fuel 5 times between here & Miami, 2700 miles away. Plus it would only take about 40 hours. Add another hour for total time spent fueling. No range issues or worries.
How long would you be charging for 2700 miles & how many stops?

Different modes of transport in different pros and cons shocker...

I can fly that in 5 hours and not stop once!

Here's a question for you then... If you run out of fuel and push your truck/car back home, what's your range before you get it (somehow) to a petrol station? And how much would it cost to fill up?

For our EV it's about 280 miles and a fiver.

Pros and cons, horses for courses, YMM(literally)V.

[weeksy]

LOL @ 2700 mile trips... i thought i was being a bit 'out there' with a trip to Fort William.

Normal people in normal worlds don't do 2700 mile trips... It's just not a common thing and can't really be considered as anything more than a complete outlier.