A question on religious theology. The CoE to apologise (again).

[weeksy]

Believers just get on with their lives.

Some non believers seem compelled to ridicule and mock at every opportunity.

What happened to live and let live?

If only that were true. I've yet to have an atheist accost me in public or show up on my doorstep to tell me about science/reality. Every weekend we have the bible squad blathering away with megaphones on a couple corners here in town.
If what these muppets claim was true, people would be beating a path to THEIR door & the fuckers wouldn't be disturbing me at home... & their book wouldn't have the word "version" on the cover, the local bible store has FOUR HUNDRED different versions...

Just so you know. Thats a US thing, not everywhere

Your country of choice sounds shitter the more you talk about it

[Taipan]

Believers just get on with their lives.

Some non believers seem compelled to ridicule and mock at every opportunity.

What happened to live and let live?

I wouldn’t ever ridicule. I do think some of it is ridiculous but if it helps make people want to be kind/good, then I’m all for it (if I don’t have to join in)

It’s when it’s used as excuse to do wrong or evil I struggle

Why struggle, as that's nothing to do with religion itself. Just, as you say, religion is being (ab)used by people for evil purposes. Make as much sense as hating on all football fans because of the football hooligans. It's all just another example of the innocent paying for the crimes of the guilty!

[ZRX61]

I agree with that and I think most folk on this forum could completely agree with that position. It's when religion (of any flavour) is pushed at you that I get annoyed. The most obvious proponents of this evangelical fervour are Jehovah's Witnesses. For my sins (of which there are many) I was a JW umtil about the age of 20; my excuse being that Mum and Dad Got Religion when I was a toddler and at first it all seemed normal. It was only when I got older that the dissonance crept in.

And I can tell you that going round knocking on doors trying to convince people of something in which they have zero interest is a pretty soul-destroying pursuit. But if you choose to offer yourself up for large scale rejection, you do deserve what you get.

Did my brief spell in the JWs make me a better person? I have absolutely no idea. But I only learned to swear properly after I left them, I do know that...

So what's the beef between JW's & catholics? If you tell JW that you're catholic they pretty much take off running.

[ZRX61]

Just so you know. Thats a US thing, not everywhere

Your country of choice sounds shitter the more you talk about it

A small price to pay for 350 days of sunshine & zero corrosion on my bikes/tools/vehicles.

[ZRX61]

It was actually going to church that put me off religion. Even as a kid I knew some of the adults that put their best clothes on and their friendly face on in church were pretty unpleasant outside of Sunday. (We were CoE not Catholic, so they didn't really get a clean slate from confession like the Catholics!!)

Bloke I know over here was an Iranian born Muslim. Moved to the US when he was a kid & as an adult changed religion... multiple times, He's also been a Jew, Catholic, Protestant, Pentacost, JW etc. Not sure what flavor he follows these days, but he's the biggest con man* I know. He's done jail for all sorts of crimes that involved taking people (& mortgage companies) to the cleaners for $millions.
I think he finally got himself squared away & now works with a religious outfit helping the hopeless/homeless, but I'm not entirely sure it's not just another con.

*His brother is the same way, but VERY violent, total psychopath. Makes the Krays look like girl scouts. Thankfully I've only met him a couple of times.

[wheelnut]

.

Most peoples faith is based upon a good and benevolent God, so they wont see your claims as anything other than disrespectful and antagonistic.

I’ve never been able to square away the fact that a ‘good and benevolent God’ would demand exclusive devotion on the pain of burning in hell for all eternity?

That said I’m not 100% sure on the CofE hell teaching now.

[mangocrazy]

I agree with that and I think most folk on this forum could completely agree with that position. It's when religion (of any flavour) is pushed at you that I get annoyed. The most obvious proponents of this evangelical fervour are Jehovah's Witnesses. For my sins (of which there are many) I was a JW umtil about the age of 20; my excuse being that Mum and Dad Got Religion when I was a toddler and at first it all seemed normal. It was only when I got older that the dissonance crept in.

And I can tell you that going round knocking on doors trying to convince people of something in which they have zero interest is a pretty soul-destroying pursuit. But if you choose to offer yourself up for large scale rejection, you do deserve what you get.

Did my brief spell in the JWs make me a better person? I have absolutely no idea. But I only learned to swear properly after I left them, I do know that...

So what's the beef between JW's & catholics? If you tell JW that you're catholic they pretty much take off running.

That may be a more recent thing, but when I was a JW (over 50 years ago) all other faiths were the subject of our disdain. The JWs were equal-opportunity evangelists - they'd take anybody...

[Skub]

Just so you know. Thats a US thing, not everywhere

Your country of choice sounds shitter the more you talk about it

A small price to pay for 350 days of sunshine & zero corrosion on my bikes/tools/vehicles.

We get the 'fire and brimstone' shouters here too,but not 350 day sunshine.

I feel cheated.

[demographic]

Believers just get on with their lives.

Some non believers seem compelled to ridicule and mock at every opportunity.

What happened to live and let live?

If only that were true. I've yet to have an atheist accost me in public or show up on my doorstep to tell me about science/reality. Every weekend we have the bible squad blathering away with megaphones on a couple corners here in town.
If what these muppets claim was true, people would be beating a path to THEIR door & the fuckers wouldn't be disturbing me at home... & their book wouldn't have the word "version" on the cover, the local bible store has FOUR HUNDRED different versions...

Just so you know. Thats a US thing, not everywhere

Your country of choice sounds shitter the more you talk about it

Err... we get godbotherers pestering people/preaching loudly in the centre of sunny Carlisle which last time I looked was in England.
What country do you live in now?

[Cousin Jack]

Believers just get on with their lives.

Some non believers seem compelled to ridicule and mock at every opportunity.

What happened to live and let live?

I am quite happy for believers to get on with their lives but they don't. They indoctrinate kids, they try to influence the law, they plead for special rules to apply to them. And they, or at least a few of them, clutter up the news and airwaves with their brand of nonsense. So I push back and point out how ridiculous their assertions are.

Once upon a time I was brought up as a Christian. I was sent to Sunday School and went to chapel every Sunday evening. Asa teenager I was not impressed and the final straw was a sermon by a Methodist lay preacher that blamed all the problems of the world on teenagers and rock and roll. That was last service I attended, apart from the odd family christening, weddings and funerals. I hasten to add that it was not my child being christened, nor was she married in church.

[ZRX61]

.

Most peoples faith is based upon a good and benevolent God, so they wont see your claims as anything other than disrespectful and antagonistic.

I’ve never been able to square away the fact that a ‘good and benevolent God’ would demand exclusive devotion on the pain of burning in hell for all eternity?

That said I’m not 100% sure on the CofE hell teaching now.

If they need the good book to threaten them with eternal damnation to be a good person then they're just a psychopath on a leash.

[Noggin]

Believers just get on with their lives.

Some non believers seem compelled to ridicule and mock at every opportunity.

What happened to live and let live?

I wouldn’t ever ridicule. I do think some of it is ridiculous but if it helps make people want to be kind/good, then I’m all for it (if I don’t have to join in)

It’s when it’s used as excuse to do wrong or evil I struggle

Why struggle, as that's nothing to do with religion itself. Just, as you say, religion is being (ab)used by people for evil purposes. Make as much sense as hating on all football fans because of the football hooligans. It's all just another example of the innocent paying for the crimes of the guilty!

It’s the people I struggle with more than the religion!! I’m pretty ambivalent about religion as long as it and the people who are don’t cause harm

The struggle is the people who use it to cover the causing of harm

(Not sure that makes sense now I’ve written it, but I know what I mean - hope someone else can understand too!!!)

[wheelnut]

Pete Hegseth on the rescue of the pilot

“One downed airman evaded capture for more than a day, scaling rugged ridges while hunted by the enemy. When he was finally able to activate his emergency transponder, his first message was simple, and it was powerful. He sent a message: ‘God is good,’” Hegseth said. “In that moment of isolation and danger his faith and fighting spirit shown through.”

“You see, shot down on a Friday, Good Friday. Hidden in a cave. A crevice, all of Saturday. And rescued on Sunday, flown out of Iran as the sun was rising on Easter Sunday. A pilot reborn, all home and accounted for, a nation rejoicing. God is good“

Just one of the many religiously oriented speeches he’s given conflating the war in Iran with a religious crusade.

Not meant to be a Trump thread - just an example of the dangers of having religious extremists in power.

[Rockburner]

Pete Hegseth on the rescue of the pilot

“One downed airman evaded capture for more than a day, scaling rugged ridges while hunted by the enemy. When he was finally able to activate his emergency transponder, his first message was simple, and it was powerful. He sent a message: ‘God is good,’” Hegseth said. “In that moment of isolation and danger his faith and fighting spirit shown through.”

“You see, shot down on a Friday, Good Friday. Hidden in a cave. A crevice, all of Saturday. And rescued on Sunday, flown out of Iran as the sun was rising on Easter Sunday. A pilot reborn, all home and accounted for, a nation rejoicing. God is good“

Just one of the many religiously oriented speeches he’s given conflating the war in Iran with a religious crusade.

Not meant to be a Trump thread - just an example of the dangers of having religious extremists in power.

Ironic then really, that the favoured greeting of Hegseth's enemies is "Allah uh Ackbah" (sp?), which literally translates as "God is good". I wonder if Hegseth and his troupe are even aware of that.

[Horse]

If they need the good book to threaten them with eternal damnation to be a good person then they're just a psychopath on a leash.

An RE teacher at the secondary school I went to used a hefty Bible to dole out punishment if you transgressed.

No different from others who used wooden board rubbers, rigid exercise books, PE plimsolls, metalworking tools ...

[ogri]

If they need the good book to threaten them with eternal damnation to be a good person then they're just a psychopath on a leash.

An RE teacher at the secondary school I went to used a hefty Bible to dole out punishment if you transgressed.

No different from others who used wooden board rubbers, rigid exercise books, PE plimsolls, metalworking tools ...

Good old secondary modern skools

[Horse]

If they need the good book to threaten them with eternal damnation to be a good person then they're just a psychopath on a leash.

An RE teacher at the secondary school I went to used a hefty Bible to dole out punishment if you transgressed.

No different from others who used wooden board rubbers, rigid exercise books, PE plimsolls, metalworking tools ...

Good old secondary modern skools

Without moving, I attended a grammar school, secondary and comprehensive

Year 1: grammar
Year 2: merged with the non-grammar school next door
Year 3: girls admitted

[Horse]

I could go into a ... religion, based as it is on fear*

* "Be good or go to hell".

Several years ago I read a book which included details of how people were 'brainwashed' in China.

Within a few days, I spent Christmas Eve with a group of friends who wanted to go to the midnight service. I went along.

The service include a set of lead-response statements, basically "I'm not worthy", exactly the same brainwashing technique as covered in the book.

[gremlin]

It’s the people I struggle with more than the religion!!

How are you differentiating the two? Religion is man-made concept, surely.

[Noggin]

It’s the people I struggle with more than the religion!!

How are you differentiating the two? Religion is man-made concept, surely.

Yes. But I don't exactly believe in the religion bit, so I struggle with people that try to force other people to believe in something they believe in and follow the behaviours 'required' by that.