Analogue bikes

[dern]

I was watching this at lunchtime...



...and it poses a question that definitely appeals to me. That is, does all the tech on new bikes really benefit me? I was riding my zx9r-e1 at the weekend which has carbs, no abs... nothing to speak of in terms in computer tech. It rides amazingly... it doesn't feel vintage, 'classic' or frankly even old... why do I need a tft dash?

I'm not against fuel injection or anything like that... I'm not a luddite. However, at what point does this stuff really offer no benefit to us while simply adding cost to the bike that ultimately adds profit to the manufacturer. I'm not saying that them making profit is inherently bad I'm just saying that for me there's a level of features that come with a bike that is enough and I don't want any more... it's not worth the money to me. Do you think that the tech features are worth it to you, maybe to add reliability or safety... or is that an illusion?

[Skub]

I've never had a bike with a tft dash,or any rider aids beyond the now compulsory abs,so I don't know if I am missing a trick. In the car I see the benefit of cruise control,so I don't need to constantly watch my speedo,maybe useful on a bike too?

I'm not anti as such,but I doubt I'd envy a bike with any sort of 'trickery'. My tastes in bikes appear to be retarding anyway,so perhaps I'm not the one to ask.

[MrLongbeard]

In the car I see the benefit of cruise control, so I don't need to constantly watch my speedo, maybe useful on a bike too?

Hell yes it is, I'll not have a bike without it now.

[dern]

I've never had a bike with a tft dash,or any rider aids beyond the now compulsory abs,so I don't know if I am missing a trick. In the car I see the benefit of cruise control,so I don't need to constantly watch my speedo,maybe useful on a bike too?

I'm not anti as such,but I doubt I'd envy a bike with any sort of 'trickery'. My tastes in bikes appear to be retarding anyway,so perhaps I'm not the one to ask.

I had an 1190 with multi axis imu, traction control and abs. All theoretical though as I only had the abs kick in once. I imagine that it's something that's useful when you need it but in the few years I had it I didn't need it despite doing IAM handling and braking days, riding it in winter and taking it on track.

[Skub]

I understand the value of having safety nets in the background,for the most part unobtrusive,can't be a bad idea in general. The question dern raised (I think) is, have the systems become an expensive liability in certain scenarios and is simpler better?

[Trinity765]

I don't care either way so long as it works.

The only tech I've ever made use of is rain mode when I'm running out of fuel and the quick shifter on the Street was handy when keeping up with ltr bikes.

I saw the traction control light on the Street come on once when I made air.

[dern]

I only used rain mode on the ktm because the throttle response on normal mode was so snatchy round town. The range guide on the ktm generally said about 350 miles when I filled it up and then would stay near that number until the low fuel light came on after less than 200. It was the only bit of tech that actually annoyed me about the bike.

[Trinity765]

I only used rain mode on the ktm because the throttle response on normal mode was so snatchy round town. The range guide on the ktm generally said about 350 miles when I filled it up and then would stay near that number until the low fuel light came on after less than 200. It was the only bit of tech that actually annoyed me about the bike.

I use road mode on the Hornet because it's smoother around town and quick enough in the nationals. I've also learned to wait until the automatic choke has done it's thing before I ride off as when it's operating the power drops completely for a moment as soon as you touch the throttle - fine unless the bars are turned

I've assumed that rain mode is more fuel efficient regardless of the range guide.

[KungFooBob]

The ESA on my R1200GS LC is black magic, It seems no matter how many shoes the wife takes on holiday it stills stays perfectly level.

I also quite like the keyless features.

[Cousin Jack]

No serious black magic on my bike, ABS, FI and a digital dash. I would actually prefer analogue clocks.

Never had most of the multi mode magic and never felt I needed it.

[The Spin Doctor]

Three thoughts...

1) it's a cheap 'upgrade' allowing for the manufacturer to bring out a 'new' year model of an existing bike with upgraded electronics
2) it's a way of keeping an ICE platform appearing to be moving forward when there's little point developing a new model when end of ICE legislation remains on the horizon
3) if the electronics are part of a subscription model activated over the air there's added value to the manufacturer for not-a-lot of effort

And the last one allows for functions to be turned off when the manufacturer decides you have owned the bike for long enough. Toyota has just turned on some functions on the early Nissan Leaf, and Amazon has bricked first gen Kindles.

[Taipan]

I had cruise control on a Tmax and my Africa Twin It makes so much sense on an auto/DCT. I miss it. That said, I kinda miss old stuff (cars and bikes) that you could work on without plugging an obd reader in.

[Pirahna]

On the Super Duke I got 1000km's of free everything then it's mostly locked out. Some of the ride modes, cruise and quickshifter are gone. There's a fee to release some, or all of the locked out stuff. At the first service the dealer unlocks it once you've paid. Not really an issue, I kew this was going to happen and just handed the money over.

Cruise is a nice thing to have, but same as a car, it works best on roads with little traffic. Adaptive cruise would be nice to have, but sadly not an option for me. For anyone thats not used it on a bike, when you turn it off, if you do so without opening the throttle then it the same as rapidly closing the throttle, the bike slows down fairly quickly. After the first few goes you soon get used to it. Here's in Spain with long roads and no traffic it's a nice thing to have.

The electronics on the KTM include cornering ABS and traction control, wheelie control, slide control, variable engine brake and probably a bit more I can't remember. All handy stuff but, I don't think I've ever had any of it cut in. Maybe a lifetime of analogue bikes does help with bike control. A 954 Blade is rated at 154HP with zero rider aids and I don't recall needing any help with it. I do leave the KTM is street mode most of the time and haven't yet monkeyed with the settings. It gives me all the fun I need so no point in changing it.

[Ditchfinder]

Nearly stacked the Griso after riding the Duke for 18 months because of an unexpected slide due to no ABS. It never happened again but I was lucky I managed to let go of the lever just before the front tucked but just late enough I didn't hit the thing I hadn't paid enough attention too. That last near miss changed my riding in terms of observation quite a lot, almost to the point where"they're all trying to kill me" nearly ruined bikes for me

[The Spin Doctor]

Nearly stacked the Griso after riding the Duke for 18 months because of an unexpected slide due to no ABS. It never happened again but I was lucky I managed to let go of the lever just before the front tucked but just late enough I didn't hit the thing I hadn't paid enough attention too. That last near miss changed my riding in terms of observation quite a lot, almost to the point where"they're all trying to kill me" nearly ruined bikes for me

Switch to "everyone's human and humans sometimes make mistakes". It's an equally defensive, but much less negative approach.

[Count Steer]

Had cruise control on a couple of bikes (and a multi-speaker sound system on one* ).

Cruise control is v handy for scratching your bum (if you're right handed) while on the move. The other thing I found was it was more fuel efficient at maintaining a constant speed over varied terrain than I was.

*K12LT - it had a vanity mirror in the top box too.

[Dodgy69]

Depends on bike and purpose of use. On a little plodder you don't need any tech. On a faster , trackday bike then yes, slipper clutch, tc, abs, up and down qs. The power modes seem a complete waste of time to me, cc also.

The inventors will always invent, whether you need it or not.

[Rockburner]

Can't say I like tech that's any more complicated than what I've already got (FI control via BMW's Motronic system).

I've ridden more modern bikes (mostly BMWs) and just find the tech a distraction to the business at hand, but then, I think I'm a bit weird in that I treat motorcycling (and driving to a lesser extent) as something that needs to be respected and so concentrated on. I believe I concentrate harder and longer while riding than I do while doing anything else. I want to devote my full attention to it at all times, which means I want to be in full control of all aspects of it as much as possible. So having tech that gets between me and the bike, or between the bike and the road, I don't like at all.

I had a good ride on a R1250RS a few years ago, with all the active suspension gubbins. Fantastic ride at higher speeds across-country, if everything feeling a little "remote" (and remember, I'm very very accustomed to the "remote" feeling Telelever system), but when the automated electronic suspension adjustment turned off (at anything under about 40mph), the bike wallowed and crashed around like nothing I've ever ridden. Totally spoiled it. But even the a-ESA at higher speeds when it was working reduced the input I could give, and the feedback i got, and, ultimately, the satisfaction I generated from riding.

Another anecdote: re ABS - the one time I would have found it useful it didn't kick in! Riding a K1200R with ABS installed down Putney Hill, a pedestrian suddenly appeared about a car-length in from of me, I was filtering down the outside of the traffic. I braked as hard as I dared in the slightly wet conditions... and the ABS didn't kick in and I lightly hit the idiot. We both went over. Obviously he jumped right up and disappeared and I had to deal with a scratched frame where the gear lever had nicked it. You could argue that's "my fault" for not slamming on the brakes as hard as they can be pulled and thus engaging the ABS.... however - I'm not sure I can fight in that instant against 20+ years of muscle memory....

So: as far as possible, I can't really see myself buying anything with "driver-aids" because I don't want to be insulated from the riding or driving experience. I'll be removing the ABS from the Ed80 at some point: partially for this reason, and also becuase it's not a reliable system: if it fails (which they do), there's virtually NO "residual" braking when the servos aren't operating, so it's a risk to keep it installed.


I'm really looking forward to riding the utterly analogue* JAPton again, I have to say... now THAT'S an unfiltered riding experience!



* It does actually have a modernised electronic points & self-advance system in the mag to be honest, so it's not totally analogue, ironically.

[Skub]

Switch to "everyone's human and humans sometimes make mistakes". It's an equally defensive, but much less negative approach.

It's maybe an age/experience thing,but that statement more or less sums up my attitude to other road users these days. Gone is the hot head and aggression. I don't like carrying that feeling of anger resulting from a fractious interaction. Let it go and get on with my day.

Quite often in the car Mrs.Skub will demand I toot my horn at some other driver who she has perceived has wronged me in some way,but my stock reply now is,"we are all human and make mistakes,or they may just be a cunt". Blasting the horn will not fix either of those things.

It's all about the chill,maaaan.

[Rockburner]

Switch to "everyone's human and humans sometimes make mistakes". It's an equally defensive, but much less negative approach.

It's maybe an age/experience thing,but that statement more or less sums up my attitude to other road users these days. Gone is the hot head and aggression. I don't like carrying that feeling of anger resulting from a fractious interaction. Let it go and get on with my day.

Quite often in the car Mrs.Skub will demand I toot my horn at some other driver who she has perceived has wronged me in some way,but my stock reply now is,"we are all human and make mistakes,or they may just be a cunt". Blasting the horn will not fix either of those things.

It's all about the chill,maaaan.

I try to do this..... but I still get a little pissed by people who dither, especially if that puts me in an unsafe situation : eg the person who pulled partially out of her lane to the left (obviously wanting to turn left at the upcoming junction), and then dithered for at least 30 seconds looking at me, at a complete standstill in the left lane, waiting for her to carry on.