Old new rider question - 125 or DAS

[darthpunk]

I'm sure this has been asked more than once, but as someone who deals with ADHD and is at the ripe old age of 50, making decisions has never been my strong point.

Fiiiiinnnnallly I am getting round to completing the bike tests, years of an overbearing mother, never having the money, a new child and all the other things that got in the way I'm making time for myself and I'm going through the training. Did my theory and CBT in the last few weeks and waiting for the riding school to contact me about Mod 1 dates. But, after far too much reading and You Tubing on th esubject, i'm now questioning the following:

Go for the rest of the training or buy a 125 and build up some confidence.

There were a couple of moments when I got too deep inside my head during the on road sections of the CBT. Downshifting when I should have upshifted, stalled on an unplanned reasonably steep hill start. So now I am driving myself nuts thinking that I'm going so spaff a load of money on training that I'll just fail due to poor clutch control or screwing up the direction the gears go in.

The riding school was really good explaining that they will end up practicing the mod 1 almost 15 times during the training, and the bigger bikes are easier to control than the 125 CBF's, but I can't seem to shake this idea that whatever approach I take will be the wrong approach

Many thanks

[Trinity765]

Maybe whatever approach you take will be the right approach.

Let's start with some simple questions.

What are you wanting to achieve?
Why are you trying to achieve it?
When would you like to achieve it by?

[darthpunk]

What are you wanting to achieve?
Why are you trying to achieve it?
When would you like to achieve it by?

Full license to be able to go on little adventures to get away from things when I need to or chippy runs on a Sunday
I was brought up around bikes but was never allowed to ride, father died recently and has really made think about the need to just get on with it and stop making excuses
No set time limit, sooner the better as with all things, once I get the full license I can do what I want, this feels like the hurdle I need to get over

I may have answered my question, DAS makes sense

[Buckaroo]

Just remember the learning process.

Unconsciously incompetent. Thinking it's easy. Not knowing.
Consciously incompetent. You know you don't know.
Consciously competent. You can do it, but need to concentrate.
Unconsciously competent. You do it without thinking.

It's a natural progression. Stick with it.

[Count Steer]

From the description of the errors above (eg gears up/down, clutch control) I'd suggest you need to get some miles in, outside of the training environment, to make some of it second nature and not occupying brain bandwidth. As long as you have the road sense.

Where does this idea come from that bigger bikes are 'easier to control'?

Get a cheap 125 and get riding.

(+ the questions Trinity suggests).

[darthpunk]

From the description of the errors above (eg gears up/down, clutch control) I'd suggest you need to get some miles in, outside of the training environment, to make some of it second nature and not occupying brain bandwidth. As long as you have the road sense.

Where does this idea come from that bigger bikes are 'easier to control'?

Get a cheap 125 and get riding.

(+ the questions Trinity suggests).

I've read from many places that bugger bikes used in DAS training are easier to control because of weight and center of gravity compared to 125s, not more forgiving but less twitchy.

Not making excuses but the boots I bought may not have been the best choice, I couldn't feel a damn thing through them and the tread would get caught on the footrest and get really difficult to move. I'll probably get more of a touring boot instead of the old style lace up boots that I bought. Overthinking that probably didn't help the situation

[Count Steer]

From the description of the errors above (eg gears up/down, clutch control) I'd suggest you need to get some miles in, outside of the training environment, to make some of it second nature and not occupying brain bandwidth. As long as you have the road sense.

Where does this idea come from that bigger bikes are 'easier to control'?

Get a cheap 125 and get riding.

(+ the questions Trinity suggests).

I've read from many places that bugger bikes used in DAS training are easier to control because of weight and center of gravity compared to 125s, not more forgiving but less twitchy.

Not making excuses but the boots I bought may not have been the best choice, I couldn't feel a damn thing through them and the tread would get caught on the footrest and get really difficult to move. I'll probably get more of a touring boot instead of the old style lace up boots that I bought. Overthinking that probably didn't help the situation

True. Clumpy boots on a bike won't help at this stage...not sure they ever do! (Doing an off-road course in those big plastic things was often a case of 'stamp somewhere in the direction of the gear lever! ).

The more distractions like that that you can eliminate, the better.

A bigger bike will feel less twitchy but I still think that getting or borrowing a 125 - or even smaller - and just puttering around a quiet circuit will advance the mechanics of your riding pretty rapidly.

Horse, Spin Doctor and a few others can offer the professional trainer view.

[Rockburner]

From the description of the errors above (eg gears up/down, clutch control) I'd suggest you need to get some miles in, outside of the training environment, to make some of it second nature and not occupying brain bandwidth. As long as you have the road sense.

Where does this idea come from that bigger bikes are 'easier to control'?

Get a cheap 125 and get riding.

(+ the questions Trinity suggests).

Fully agree.

There's 2 aspects to riding a bike: machine control and road sense. They're almost totally separate skills, but you need to be good at both to be a good rider. Also - they both come with practise (after training), so I'd say get more practise in at a reasonable/lower cost threshold until you gain confidence.

[Rockburner]

Oh - I'd also say that whatever "style" of bike you buy first doesn't have to have any bearing on what style of bike you eventually want to have permanently. So, unless you are absolutely 110% sure that you're going to be doing mainly off-road / trail type riding, you don't need to buy big clumpy boots at this stage if they're not going to help you learn your machine control.

[darthpunk]

Oh - I'd also say that whatever "style" of bike you buy first doesn't have to have any bearing on what style of bike you eventually want to have permanently. So, unless you are absolutely 110% sure that you're going to be doing mainly off-road / trail type riding, you don't need to buy big clumpy boots at this stage if they're not going to help you learn your machine control.

It was a pair of these (not the fault of the JTS boot, but I should have put more thought into it)


The sharp edges on the sole made it difficult to move my foot around on the peg so between that and the general "clump" of the toebox, it became difficult to get any feel for gear changes, that caused me to fluster and get inside my own head a bit too much instead of taking a deep breath and carrying on. The instructor said he knew when I thought I had done something wrong because I kept shaking my head.

I should have probably went for something more like this

[Count Steer]

Oh - I'd also say that whatever "style" of bike you buy first doesn't have to have any bearing on what style of bike you eventually want to have permanently. So, unless you are absolutely 110% sure that you're going to be doing mainly off-road / trail type riding, you don't need to buy big clumpy boots at this stage if they're not going to help you learn your machine control.

It was a pair of these (not the fault of the JTS boot, but I should have put more thought into it)


The sharp edges on the sole made it difficult to move my foot around on the peg so between that and the general "clump" of the toebox, it became difficult to get any feel for gear changes, that caused me to fluster and get inside my own head a bit too much instead of taking a deep breath and carrying on. The instructor said he knew when I thought I had done something wrong because I kept shaking my head.

I should have probably went for something more like this

TBH, while you're getting the feel for the gears etc, something like this would probably suffice in a not-too-hazardous environment on a light bike.

https://www.screwfix.com/p/site-toth-si ... oots/186rt

Ankle support, toe cap - provided it's not too high profile, should be fine until you get on-road a lot.

I know there are adherents of maximum protection at all times, but if your kit is adding to the hazards it's hard to focus on what needs to be focused on. Comfort is also a safety factor.

[Rockburner]

Oh - I'd also say that whatever "style" of bike you buy first doesn't have to have any bearing on what style of bike you eventually want to have permanently. So, unless you are absolutely 110% sure that you're going to be doing mainly off-road / trail type riding, you don't need to buy big clumpy boots at this stage if they're not going to help you learn your machine control.

It was a pair of these (not the fault of the JTS boot, but I should have put more thought into it)


The sharp edges on the sole made it difficult to move my foot around on the peg so between that and the general "clump" of the toebox, it became difficult to get any feel for gear changes, that caused me to fluster and get inside my own head a bit too much instead of taking a deep breath and carrying on. The instructor said he knew when I thought I had done something wrong because I kept shaking my head.

I should have probably went for something more like this

TBH, while you're getting the feel for the gears etc, something like this would probably suffice in a not-too-hazardous environment on a light bike.

https://www.screwfix.com/p/site-toth-si ... oots/186rt

Ankle support, toe cap - provided it's not too high profile, should be fine until you get on-road a lot.

I know there are adherents of maximum protection at all times, but if your kit is adding to the hazards it's hard to focus on what needs to be focused on. Comfort is also a safety factor.

There's lots of bike boots that aren't steel toe-capped but are styled and feel like trainers these days. I've got a pair, they're very comfy (if hot as hell because of the water-resistant lining), lots of choice now.

[Count Steer]

TBH, while you're getting the feel for the gears etc, something like this would probably suffice in a not-too-hazardous environment on a light bike.

https://www.screwfix.com/p/site-toth-si ... oots/186rt

Ankle support, toe cap - provided it's not too high profile, should be fine until you get on-road a lot.

I know there are adherents of maximum protection at all times, but if your kit is adding to the hazards it's hard to focus on what needs to be focused on. Comfort is also a safety factor.

There's lots of bike boots that aren't steel toe-capped but are styled and feel like trainers these days. I've got a pair, they're very comfy (if hot as hell because of the water-resistant lining), lots of choice now.

TBH RB I was thinking of the cash outlay at this stage too. Those Site boots aren't as spendy as anything labelled 'motorcycle'.

[darthpunk]

It's certainly not helping at the moment. We have been told by the training place it's a no on steel toe caps. I'll look at the Richa boots and maybe something like this too



I'm not too concerned about the money aspect, not that i'm rich, absolutely not, but i've saved up some cash and most everything I am buying is for the long term, I am at least adamant I will get the full license eventually

[Rockburner]

TBH, while you're getting the feel for the gears etc, something like this would probably suffice in a not-too-hazardous environment on a light bike.

https://www.screwfix.com/p/site-toth-si ... oots/186rt

Ankle support, toe cap - provided it's not too high profile, should be fine until you get on-road a lot.

I know there are adherents of maximum protection at all times, but if your kit is adding to the hazards it's hard to focus on what needs to be focused on. Comfort is also a safety factor.

There's lots of bike boots that aren't steel toe-capped but are styled and feel like trainers these days. I've got a pair, they're very comfy (if hot as hell because of the water-resistant lining), lots of choice now.

TBH RB I was thinking of the cash outlay at this stage too. Those Site boots aren't as spendy as anything labelled 'motorcycle'.

True - but there is some truth in the "steel-toecaps are bad mmmkay". From my riding experience, I wouldn't want steel toe-caps in certain situations.

[Count Steer]

It's certainly not helping at the moment. We have been told by the training place it's a no on steel toe caps. I'll look at the Richa boots and maybe something like this too



I'm not too concerned about the money aspect, not that i'm rich, absolutely not, but i've saved up some cash and most everything I am buying is for the long term, I am at least adamant I will get the full license eventually

Ooh! I like the look of those Spada boots.

[darthpunk]

Seem quite close in looks to Vans and no wonky colours, the perfect pair

[Cousin Jack]

My twopenneth - go the DAS route. Modern 125s are no slouches, but they are buzzy and built for lightweight yoofs to rev the nuts off. In particular they are short of torque at low revs, and having to use lots of revs to avoid bogging down is not something you need as a beginner. Neither do you need to buy a huge touring bike when you have your DAS, a 400/500/650 will have adequate performance and will take you touring if you want. I have done half of Europe on a 500.

[McNab]

I remember my training center telling us not to wear steel toe capped boots as they can chop your toes off in an accident. I don't know if that has ever actually happened though.

[cvilla]

Hi, I'm older than you (by a decade) and have come to ride in last 3 years, CBT, then bought a Honda 125 and did around 1500 miles, over winter, before going for DAS but with weekly lessons with local instructor on a CBF600 (which I now own different actual bike:), at that time it took an age to get Mod1 booked, but meant I could gain experience on 125 in my own time and also with instructor. I did better over time gaining experience and understand where you come from with gear down or up situation, whereas now (after 5,000 miles) it is easier!!
Boots wise and everything, it takes time to get used, so keep practicing. Large bikes can be better but also harder, especially as heavier and the main issue is slow control, slow traffic, stopping, starting are the main issues, especially when add in gravel roads, off-camber, hilly routes, other drivers !! etc.
Also I went full A licence, you could try A2 with a medium bike (edit: many more A2 bike these days that look really good), many ways, but it is time in the saddle that helps. Enjoy the experience, I went organic, no time constraints and also as you are doing, you need to try out 125, DAS etc to see how you like it all.